Dating as a feminine presenting LGBTQ individual can be difficult. There is no guidebook for how to date, and there are few places outside of dating apps to meet potential love interests.

So, what do they do? Why is it so difficult? How can we make it better? Dimitrius is joined by journalist Alex Gonzalez as they discuss the difference between feminine and masculine energies and how we can disabuse ourselves of binary language.

Dating & Existing as a Feminine Gay Man

Alex Gonzalez  01:18

Things are changing, and it’s probably going to take a long time for things to get to a point where, you know, masculinity is not dominating femininity, or you know, these traditional roles aren’t part of the zeitgeist.

Dimitrius  01:34

I’m really scary to date right now. Like kind of terrifying. I have a very low tolerance for disrespect. And people being super inappropriate, especially on dating apps. Unfortunately, for many of you on those dating apps, you already know that half the people you deal with have no regard for boundaries, or respecting you as a person.

We’re very selfish these days. And unfortunately for these people, when I am disrespected, I become very vicious, in my reaction to the testing of boundaries and being disrespectful.

Well, I say vicious. I think I’m just being sarcastic and blunt. But some of my friends say, I’m being savage. Now I know what you’re thinking also. “Dimitrius. If you hate dating apps so much, why don’t you get off of them and just meet people in person?”

And believe me, I wish it were that simple. However, I’m a feminine, gay black man, who often gets mistaken for a woman, there are little to no spaces out there that cater to an environment where I can walk in, grab a drink, and just bump into a potential romantic partner like my hetero counterparts.

You guys have like bicycling groups and, and these lovely little tea parties and you can just be straight and peace, I don’t get that I have to, you know, walk down dark alleys and all that other weird stuff. But especially for those of us who don’t conform to gender norms, and or fall outside of the gender binary itself.

Since we don’t have many spaces where we’re accepted, let alone romantically pursued. It just gets so complicated, and confusing. And sometimes it looks just downright hopeless.

Today, I wanted to explore the contrast between masculine and feminine dating experiences and the energies when it comes to dating. So with that, let’s get started.

Dimitrius  04:19

So a little bit more about my experience as a feminine gay man, who is pretty darn androgynous. Part of the reason why I am so vicious in the first place is because these dudes be trying me for feminine presenting men or even those who are non binary.

We don’t get taken seriously most of the time in general, let alone when we’re dating. I have guys hit me up where it’s very obvious. Every cis-hetero woman they harassed that day didn’t give them the time of day.

So they think, Oh, well, here’s this I guess transgender person who nobody wants, I could probably get them in bed pretty easily, only to find out that I’m much worse to deal with. Which brings me to fetishes.

As a feminine black gay man, I have to deal with fetishes on multiple fronts. I get guys who call themselves a tranny chaser. And I get guys who are bi curious and want their first experience to be with the person with a big black cock.

I don’t like saying the word cock by the way. Either way, they try to reduce me to a sexual object. And I’m sure it happens fairly often. For others like me, as well, were seen as the other. For some people.

We’re not someone you’d ever see yourself being in a serious relationship with taking home to meet your parents, or much less getting married. We’re meant to inhabit an experimental phase, and help bored, sexually frustrated people get something out of their system.

So when I do meet a guy who isn’t a complete dump truck of a human being within the first two seconds of us messaging each other, I have to be very intentional about setting my boundaries, and communicating my expectations.

Now I wanted to talk about the contrast between feminine and masculine experiences and energies. So I’m bringing on my dear friend Alex, Alex, and I vent to each other about this stuff all the time. So it was natural for me to invite him onto the show. So without further ado, let’s bring him on.

Defining Masculine vs. Feminine

Alex Gonzalez  06:38

All right, well, I am an art and culture journalist. I am based in Dallas, and I am openly bisexual. My interests include art, music, I have like a very eclectic taste. And, you know, overall, I’m still I’m 20 years old and still learning how to live life and you know, taking the lessons in stride.

Dimitrius  07:02

Good. I’m glad you didn’t undersell yourself because I was prepared to be like, well, actually, Alex, you also do this, this this this? Like we uplift people over here.

Alex Gonzalez  07:13

I’m trying to learn how to gas myself up and you know.

Dimitrius  07:16

Okay, well, where can we find you on social media?

Alex Gonzalez  07:20

Alright, you can find me on Instagram, Twitter, and Tik Tok at Alex G writer, it is all one word, alexgwriter.

Dimitrius  07:30

We wanted to talk about and tackle masculine feminine energies, and how we can kind of disabuse ourselves of binary language. Right?

So I wanted to start off with, because I want to define what masculine and femininity are, and then move on into the binary language and how we’re still kind of using that in a way that is not exactly helpful at times. So in your opinion, what is how do you define masculinity?

Alex Gonzalez  08:04

All right, well, masculinity, I think refers to a set of traits and a set of characteristics and a set of mannerisms that are often attributed to men, you know, there’s that sort of, you know, protective nature that sort of driven more by logic than emotion.

And oftentimes, most emotions are, most emotions, men Express are typically anger and very rarely happiness, you know, they just kind of keep like a, I don’t know how to say it’s like a little bit more of a low key nature, whereas women are stereotypically, you know, thought to be more expressive, more, you know, submissive, you know, they’re protective as well, but they’re more of like the caretakers than they are, you know.

When Does it Get Toxic?

Dimitrius  08:52

so what do you feel like are the more toxic aspects of it?

Alex Gonzalez  08:56

I think, oftentimes, men are not taught to express their emotions in a healthy way. Therefore, it leads to anger, therefore, it leads to violent outbursts, it leads to yelling, it leads to, you know, kind of like an assertion of dominance, so to say.

Dimitrius  09:12

Yeah, I agree with that. I do. Absolutely. And so moving on to feminine, how would you define what that is?

Alex Gonzalez  09:21

Alright, how would I define femininity, it’s usually a set of traits, characteristics, mannerisms, that are often associated with women, you know, they do have like the protective nature, like that of the masculine spectrum, but also, you know, they’re expected to be submissive, you know, they’re thought to be more emotional, more sensitive, more feeling, in a way.

I don’t know, in this day and age, it’s really hard to you know, define it as black and white as cookie cutter. things, you know, just definitely, because, like I’ve learned to kind of think about it as a spectrum rather than just two fixed points.

Dimitrius  10:01

I definitely can agree with you there. Because as someone, I identify as a gay male, but I’m very androgynous and I’ve been androgynous majority of my life I guess, and having to come out during the Bush will not having but choosing to come out during the Bush administration and having to quickly define and cement during that time, it was very much so where I went, I was mistaken for a woman.

I was just like, Well, I mean, I don’t care, I don’t really care if you think I’m a woman I’m not. And being a woman is not the worst thing on earth to me. So, being feminine isn’t the worst thing on earth to me.

And so when we eventually got to the current where we are currently, where we are pushing to respect people, and their preferred pronouns, and what they choose to identify, as, I’m going to be honest, and say that I initially, I guess, kind of struggled with that concept.

Because again, I was, I had gotten to the point where I was like, No, I don’t, it doesn’t matter to me, what pronoun you use, because at the end of the day, masculine and feminine, anyone can exhibit those traits.

And those characteristics, we make them specific to men, women, and the both, like you mentioned black and white, both ends of the spectrum.

But nothing is where if you are a man, you have to be masculine, you are a woman, you have to be feminine. Because I was every day, it will even today I walk into work, and I’ve gone on four inch heel, Chelsea boots and a scarf, blazer.

And it’s like, well, I mean, I still manage to get my stuff done, I still manage to do what I need to do. So clearly I can exist, and not be 100% masculine all the time, and still command authority, and still do what I need to do. So perhaps it’s not as rigid and stringent as we make it out to be.

So we that’s why I wanted to kind of define what those two are. Because the common theme there is both are kind of social, both are social constructs.

And both can apply to anyone. Anyone can be more masculine and feminine. Anyone can be more feminine and masculine or equal parts.

And so when we draw that conclusion, and we look into specifically, the LGBT community, and our non binary allies and everything, and how they navigate, not just the dating scene, but in general, and how that how that sort of language, can that binary focus language can be so much of a hindrance

Because we are not only using the binary language, we’re associating the expectations with it, where if I say you have a husband, there’s also that expectation that comes with being husband. Attached to that.

Alex Gonzalez  13:14

You know, it traditionally the husband is thought to be the breadwinner, the hunter the gatherer, or while the woman is thought to be, you know, the caregiver, or the one who stays at home, you know, cooks and cleans.

And I think oftentimes since women have been in the work field, we’ve kind of blurred those lines between, you know, who’s the protector who’s the caretaker, and, but maybe not as soon as it should be.

But I think it’s basic things are changing, and it’s probably going to take a long time for things to get to a point where, you know, masculinity is not dominating femininity, or, you know, these traditional roles aren’t part of the zeitgeist, but I definitely think times are changing,

Dimitrius  14:06

Right. So I want to circle back to femininity because we talked about toxic masculinity. For me toxic femininity, when we are talking about I think a lot of the characteristics of that are when that I see are when we’re trying to…

Well, let me give an example of what I see on Twitter with our heterosexual brethren, where they’re talking about the different roles that are expected of women.

And you have the women who go out of their way to exhibit those characteristics so that they can gain favor from their male counterparts and how they do that at the expense of their everything well being their physical, emotional and mental well being.

Just so they make themselves more presentable and more desirable. And all of that is tied back to patriarchy. Where…

Alex Gonzalez  15:06

It’s like for the expectation of men.

Dimitrius  15:09

Yeah, making yourself more valuable, seemingly valuable for the sake of pleasing a man. And I think that also floods into the LGBTQ community, where we are still trying to kind of mimic those heteronormative dynamics and our own relationships. Because of course, that’s for most of us.

That’s all we were shown growing up. That’s all we know how to model anything after. And we are not yet, or we just don’t know that we don’t have to do that. We don’t have to be as rigid.

Well, really are heterosexual Reverend don’t have to be as either, but we especially don’t have to be. And so I believe that and really, kind of deconstructing, like we’ve done so far masculine and the feminine energies and say, and really defining what that are the kind of unsavory aspects of both?

And what kind of drives that you then gain a sense of, okay, well, if anyone can be masculine, anyone can exhibit feminine characteristics than when I am going out into the dating world and trying to figure out what I want from a partner, hopefully, I would think that would help and keeping the focus on what is healthy for me, not just what role I need to fit in, in the relationship, or what role I think my partner should fill in the relationship based on society’s expectations.

But what, what do I want from a partner? So I think there’s a benefit and not focusing so much on the rigid binary language and structure?

Do You Prefer Your Partner to be More Masculine or Feminine?

Alex Gonzalez  17:11

I think so too. And you know, so oftentimes, I’m asked, you know, do you prefer your partner to be a little more mask a little more femme?

And I’m, like, you know, I like people who are, who they are, who don’t try to fake it to be something they’re not, I mean, and you can tell when things are being faked. And, you know, I’ve dated men, I’ve dated women, I’ve dated non binary people, like dated, you know, people who present masculine leave, who presented femininely.

And, you know, and I have enjoyed my time with all of them, it doesn’t matter, you know, how they present I like people who are themselves and I vibe with people for how they make me feel. And

Dimitrius  17:56

Yeah, that last part, especially how they make you feel, how they make you feel, and what’s healthy for you. So when you focus on those things, really masculine and feminine, doesn’t even matter.

Because anyone can treat you mystery you person can fit every box of masculinity and what we think a man is supposed to be, for instance, or what we think a woman’s supposed to be, or whatever we think someone is supposed to be, they can still mistreat you, they can still not meet your expectations.

And if you don’t have those things in place, and you’re not focused on it, then it doesn’t matter who you date, because it’s going to be the same outcome.

Alex Gonzalez  18:39

Right. And, and part of that is like disabusing yourself of, you know, masculine and feminine binary language, I think you also have to disabuse yourself of, quote, unquote, type.

You know, like, a lot of people say, oh, this person wasn’t my tie, or I haven’t tied but I think you really have to let go of that if you want to pursue a relationship because not everyone is going to, you know, meet the criteria, you set the hypothetical criteria you have set for a partner, it just doesn’t work that way, you know, everyone’s gonna have, you know, their traits that, you know, you weren’t expecting, and you have to be prepared to, you know, love the person unconditionally, regardless of their traits.

Dimitrius  19:25

Oh, yeah. Let’s talk about that for a minute. So talking about when someone you feel someone isn’t your type, but we’ve all got that friend who wants so badly to tell you won’t because your type is a holes. People who do not care about you.

And of course, that that can be rooted in other things, right? Self esteem, trauma, what have you. That makes you subconsciously seek out individuals who encourages a cycle, but also So even when you acknowledge that you let’s, for me, I acknowledged my low self esteem led to me being attracted to certain people who just were no good and were emotionally just unavailable, right?

And having to really dig in and identify why am I attracted to someone like that, who does not want to be emotionally available to me, even after you’ve done all the work, you may still find yourself in patterns where you feel as though you were not attract where you are telling yourself, this person is not my type.

But you’re telling yourself that because the person that you are encountering is not familiar to what you’re used to being around dating. And so you feel that this person is absolutely what you do not want.

But that is because you haven’t stepped out of your comfort zone, to try to have new experiences with different people, people that you typically wouldn’t date.

And I found that by stepping outside of my comfort zone, and well, yeah, this person isn’t, you know, huge six foot tall and muscular and looks like they have a father of six.

But I think I can still give this person a chance. And in doing so, I discovered that. Okay, yes, everyone has to type. But your type isn’t set in stone. Your type isn’t unchangeable. Right?

Alex Gonzalez  21:37

Right. And, you know, it’s like, it’s like the same way we’re realizing that gender and you know, sexuality, it’s not really fixed. It’s fluid. Yes. malleable? It changes over time, in a way?

Dimitrius  21:53

Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. So what are some ways you feel that we can modify the binary language request them to using to just make it easier for our non binary friends out there? In general?

Creating a Safe Environment for All Gender Identities

Alex Gonzalez  22:11

I mean, like, I think, I’ve become accustomed to calling people them like using the singular they them, if I don’t know their pronouns, for sure.

And you know, or I ask people like, Hey, where’s your partner, even if they are in like heterosexual dynamics, I always asked how’s your partner doing or something just because, you know, you can never assume those types of things.

And even if they it is to sis hetero people, you know, you want to make sure that people around you know, that it’s safe to use queer language and be in queer dynamics, you know, and by using that type of language like partner, spouse, or even the singular, they then just like, it helps people around, you know, that it’s safe to express themselves freely.

Dimitrius  23:00

And I will say to that goes back to what I said earlier about me personally, not really, when someone says, What are your preferred pronouns? I’m like, Well, I mean, really, it doesn’t matter to me.

But I try to still have a preferred pronoun, just so that I am making sure that if there’s a non binary person in the vicinity, or what have you, that I’m establishing that level of acknowledgement and respect to where it’s okay, we are going to have, we’re going to respect each other’s pronouns.

And like you mentioned, as well, when you’re using the partner versus wife, husband language, they them, it helps to kind of send out that beacon, that this is a safe space, you will are going to be acknowledged and respected.

And so I just continue to, you know, I think that’s where that comes into play, where we’re, even if it doesn’t, even if you it doesn’t personally affect you. That’s kind of the direction that you want to head in.

Alex Gonzalez  24:10

And, you know, I feel like it would be disingenuous, you know, I mean, I don’t mind like pronouns and call that but I definitely am a sis man. And I feel like it would be disingenuous to say that, you know, I’ve struggled with my gender identity.

That’s not something I’ve struggled with, I mean, maybe my sexuality for sure, but I feel like I’ve always been comfortable in my body and the gender I was assigned at birth, but I’m also learning that other people’s experiences, you know, may not line up with mine. And even if I don’t fully understand, you know, the other person’s experience is valid.

And I think certain experience was like when a friend of mine had come out as non binary, but they also weren’t in touch. At least sure what it meant to be non binary.

And then I said, Well, you can be non binary, but you also could be a man who likes to carry a purse or a man who likes to paint their nails, you know, just because you do these things doesn’t mean you aren’t non binary.

And then they told me, Well, you know, I don’t really feel like I fall into like these types of, you know, norms, these expectations, and I said, Okay, well, then if you think you are non binary, I respect your identity. And you know, I’m a safe person to talk to you, and I’m committed to understanding you.

Dimitrius  25:39

And really, you know, everyone’s journey is different. And so I think the, the common theme there was you just being supportive, because you never know where someone is going to end up down the line, and their journey for their gender identity and expression.

But I think when we are making sure that we are being supportive, and we are creating a convenient and environment that is conducive to someone being able to figure that out and feeling safe and doing so that that’s those are the most important components that we can provide, even if we ourselves are not as immersed in having the first hand experience with that.

Do you have any other experience like with dating or anything? Or?

Alex Gonzalez  26:25

I mean, there have definitely been times where like, I don’t know, I’ve never really purposely sought out, you know, someone necessarily more masculine, someone more feminine.

I mean, I definitely feel like in the past, when I was younger, I would, whenever I broke up with the first guy I ever dated, I purpose, I think I purposely sought out someone more masculine just so I can make my ex feel bad about himself, which, you know, toxic Alex has in the past, but you know, not something I would do now.

Dimitrius  26:55

Typically, I, of course, was always talking to trade masculine men. And that was because, you know, usually from my experience was dating. I mean, most guys, when it comes to feminine gay guys, that’s a whole nother episode right there. And their dating experiences.

But they’re, most of the men who would even give me the time a day or so I thought, anyway, were the ones who were more like closeted, and they were looking for more of something casual.

And having to navigate that really helped me empathize with non binary folks and their dating experiences, when they’re trying to figure out, okay, there’s an expectation from the community, of what they are attracted to what they find attractive.

Dimitrius  27:50

And if I and me being a person who doesn’t present in the typical way, of what’s expected, how do I navigate the dating scene? And what is healthy and what is not. And because we don’t have a rulebook, we don’t have like a guide, you know, I feel like heterosexual sis women, they have like all these movies and self help books and all these other things. We don’t have that. We don’t have any of that.

And our dating pool is already small. Anyway, LGBTQ people’s dating pool is pretty small anyway. Oh, yeah. And then for us, it’s even more limited, because we don’t fit into that ideal image of what is considered normal and attractive, quote, unquote.

And so having to figure out what is acceptable for us in terms of a potential partner, and how we’re treated, even if you’re just looking into casual I especially learned earlier this year, even if you’re just looking for something casual, I feel like there are still things that you where you need to set boundaries and have standards.

And so putting into play all of this, all of that we’ve spoken about with defining masculine defining feminine, talking about how we can advocate for our non binary individuals or individuals like myself, who are just androgynous.

And we’re just like, I mean, the end of the day, people are going to struggle to figure out what we are one way or the other, and how we can help in those environments.

Because that helps me even though I really, like I mentioned, I don’t care what pronoun you use, it still helps me because that lets me know that I’m in an environment where I don’t have to be as on guard, as I usually am, when I like go to work or something.

Or I’m going out to pump gas. I don’t have to feel like I have to make sure this let me kind of feel it out a little bit. Make sure that everyone’s on. Not on some, you know, crazy stuff. If so, and I think if it helps nonbinary helps myself, it’ll more than likely help others in knowing that they’re in an environment of acceptance, right?

Where you just being yourself is okay here in this environment, because if you identify one way or the other, we want to make sure that you are acknowledged and respected. Regardless.

Alex Gonzalez  30:24

Yes. And I definitely wanted to go back on the whole rom com thing. You know, I think whenever I had started, like dating in college, like, I think it was helpful whenever I would be in like, relationships with women, like, seeing those rom coms and being able to like model, you know, acts of romance off of what I saw in those movies.

But like, I think I was a little more confused when I started dating men, because it’s like, there’s no like, instruction manual for this. I know now we have like, fucking rose, but I mean, it’s still like very, I don’t know, it’s kind of devastatingly wide. And let’s see what else it’s still on.

In some ways. It’s still kind of like traditional. I don’t know, it follows like, same, like, heterosexual paradigms in a way.

So yes, I don’t know. I feel like it just matters between y’all to support multiple partners. If you’re polyamorous, I know that no two relationship dynamics are the same.

Dimitrius  31:27

Right, exactly. And even though it would be nice to have a rulebook, at the same time, because we’re talking about the rom com and the heterosexual paradigms, a lot of that is being deconstructed. And we’re beginning to see how some of that is problematic, right?

And how, really when it comes down to it, and again, mentioning the constant Twitter discourse, really what it comes down to is, Are you dating someone that even likes you? Are you dating someone who respects you for who you are, for all of who you are? And I think if you focus on that, everyone focus on that.

Everything else will eventually fall into place. And of course, that’s where communication and everything like that comes in.

But I think, once again, when we think about how we’re trying to model things after heteronormative dynamics, how we don’t need to do that, and how, if we just focus on because we have unique existences and experiences that are that are not conducive to those dynamics anyway.

And really what it comes down to is, again, are you dating someone who even likes you and respects you and loves you for just who you are. And if you can just find that and focus on that, then everything else again will just kind of eventually work itself out.