LGBTQ in the Workplace
LGBTQ employees still have a rough time in the workplace. And unfortunately, many aren’t comfortable talking about it let alone addressing it.
How can LGBTQ folks find a sense of belonging at work? What can they do when they’re confronted with uncomfortable situations? How do they maintain their sense of self while navigating the workplace and world at large?
I’m joined by Alex Gonzalez and Grant Gayle once again to discuss being LGBTQ in the workplace. We’ll also share how we take on the challenges that come along with it.
Alex Gonzalez 00:58
You know, if people want to try you, they want to try you. But you know, when I’m in the workplace, I do my thing and my business, I turn in my stuff, and then I go home. That’s pretty much me. So if you want to try me, I don’t know what the issue is, but we can talk it out like adults.
Dimitrius 01:13
So to get a break from talking about dating so much. I wanted to circle back to a topic I’ve touched on previously work. Since I posted my episode about being gay in the workplace, I’ve been noticing a shift online and offline towards LGBTQ individuals, especially those like myself, who kind of fall into the category of Other.
Dimitrius 01:36
Needless to say, it’s getting pretty dangerous for us right now. And for those like myself, it really skews what little optimism we have towards life in general. But especially when it comes to our jobs. Look, we’re in a recession, I don’t care what the media says rent on average in Dallas is like $1,200. And that’s the low end, where you still might have to deal with roaches. If you want a carton of eggs, you might have to buy them and pay them overtime with the firm. That’s how bad it is.
Dimitrius 02:06
So needless to say, many of us are already one paycheck away from catastrophe. And for LGBTQ people, a catastrophe is the last thing we need right now. So how do we navigate the workplace and ensure that our environment is safe, welcoming, and stable? What we’re going to try to answer those questions today. So let’s get started. Welcome to the Dimitrius show, where I learned how to walk through my shadows, picking the flowers I’ve grown through sheer resilience.
Dimitrius 02:43
And I may not know enough yet to start teaching, but I’m going to keep convincing you to keep pushing. I’m Dimitrius. And this is my life after speaking. So I wanted to bring back my friends, Alex and grant to talk about their work experiences. I’ve talked to grant previously about work and I’ve talked to Alex about relationship dynamics. I wanted to get three separate and distinct LGBTQ voices to speak about their experiences in the workplace. So if it’s alright with y’all, let’s just jump right into it.
Alex Gonzalez 03:22
All right. Well, my name is Alex. I’m an art and culture journalist based in Dallas. I’ve been published in variety and TV, GQ, mental health and several others today, you can hear my dog yawning in the background. And yeah, so I kind of have my pulse on, you know, the latest in art and entertainment.
Grant Gayle 03:41
Alright, and my name is Grant. I am a civil and environmental engineer and I work in the Dallas Fort Worth area. I work primarily in private design consulting.
Dimitrius 03:51
So what was y’all’s week like so far? At work?
Alex Gonzalez 03:55
My week’s been pretty good. Please know that. I mean, last week was a pretty big week. I had like, a couple of really big things happen last week, but now it’s just pretty chill pretty, you know, downbeat as I would say,
Dimitrius 04:07
This week’s been pretty good, busy as always, but good busy, thankfully.
Grant Gayle 04:12
Well, I’ve had a very interesting week. Some news is that I started a new job as of last week. So I’ve been going through all the onboarding and training and getting to know more about the company that I started with. And boy, do I have a lot to say about it. But that’s where my week is.
Dimitrius 04:30
Well, well, someone’s action going on there. Congratulations. Yeah, for sure. Thank you. So grant, I know you and I previously spoke about a lot of things when it comes to being out in the workplace or being just LGBTQ in the workplace. But I wanted to ask the two of you do you talk about your personal life at work? Just your personal life in general?
Grant Gayle 04:54
I’ll say that, as a gay man. I have always had to tread carefully. What I talked about evolving my personal life, especially with regard to my sexuality, and you just have to feel the conversation and understand what aspects of your personal life can be shared some easy topics that you can talk about are like, you know, where are you going on vacation? What are you doing with your PTO?
Grant Gayle 05:15
And the other things that are somewhat private? Are things like appointment? Are you going to, you know, this medical thing, that therapy appointment, but everyone seems to keep that on the download. But of course, when it comes to your sexuality, you really have to feel out your environments, especially if you’re in a sexual minority.
Grant Gayle 05:30
And especially if you’re an office environment as well, you have to put up a wall and certain number of people pass that and I it’s something I call the vibe check basically means you’ve learned their vibe and their limits. That’s what a conversation can include. And you’ve established that they’re cool, and you can trust them and you form an inner circle that you keep closed. So that’s how I navigate the workspace.
Dimitrius 05:55
Do you do people really ask you like about your appointments and stuff? Like what they’re for?
Grant Gayle 06:00
Fortunately, no. So any kind of calendar invites will put like private appointments, and that just means that you’re out of the office, and you don’t have to say where you go or what,
Alex Gonzalez 06:11
like, I feel like that’s a rule of thumb like, general like you wouldn’t ask like a lady like, you know, Hey, what is your doctor’s appointment for? Just in case they have like, a you know, they have to go to the lady doctor, you know?
Dimitrius 06:24
Yeah, cuz I, the other day, someone asked me like, oh, because I stopped eating to intaking. So much sugar. Thanks to my convo with the cut nurse. If you’re listening, I noticed someone was like, Hey, is that Starbucks?
Dimitrius 06:38
And I was like, No, it’s not actually because I stopped drinking Starbucks for sugar and all that other stuff is just black tea. And she was like, Oh, my gosh, you go to the doctor, that’s like something happen. I’m just like, Lady Get out of my business. I’m just not drinking Starbucks every day like I used to. So I was curious. Yeah, I was curious about that. Alex, what about you? Do you get personal at work?
Alex Gonzalez 07:03
I mean, to an extent not like, you know, I’m not like saying like, Oh, my God, this person was doing some traveling shed last night. But you know, they are most of the people I work with, are aware that I am bisexual. But I mean, I use gender neutral pronouns. Like when talking about people, I mean, I myself use he him pronouns.
Alex Gonzalez 07:22
But whenever I’m talking about like, people, like, I’ll say, Oh, my partner, and I went to go have sushi, or like, my partner and I have been watching this show. I mean, I definitely do talk about my relationship from time to time, but I’m not like, you know, I mean, engage the situation.
Alex Gonzalez 07:37
I’m not gonna, like, talk about like, sex and stuff, or anything that’ll get me sent to HR, you know, I’m not going to say, Oh, we had an argument over this or something that, you know, there’s some things that like, and that’s not necessarily because, you know, I’m ashamed to hide anything. But you know, like, if my partner and I have an argument that’s between my partner and I, it’s not between, you know, my co workers.
Dimitrius 08:00
Yeah, I agree with that. I agree. I’m a lot more reserved, just because I just don’t want people feeling like they can have free rein in my personal life, especially at work. I’m just, I’m there to work and do my eight hours and go home. And so for me, I it’s really where it comes from, I just don’t want to put myself too much out there.
Dimitrius 08:24
Not because I’m ashamed or anything, like you mentioned, Alex, but more so because I just don’t want you all in my business. Like, you don’t need to be in my business for me to do my job. So typically, you know, I may mention a few things like, oh, yeah, I went to visit my parents or whatever.
Dimitrius 08:41
But I know sometimes they’ll ask, like, Oh, you have any plans this weekend? And I’m like, what is it? The Devil Wears Prada. She’s like, any plans this weekend? And what’s your names? Like? Yes. I’m not that bad. But that’s kind of how I feel like I do. Thank you.
Alex Gonzalez 08:57
And I’m kind of the same way like, even on social media more and more, like, you know, I’ll put like my work out there, like my writing out there. But like, as far as my personal life, I’ll be like, oh, like whenever I would call text a friend like about like, Oh, hey, I don’t live here anymore. Here’s my new address.
Alex Gonzalez 09:11
If you want to think up, they’re like, Oh, I didn’t know you moved or like, you know, like, I keep like, personal milestones to myself or like, if I show up like at a you know, any event for work with my partner. I didn’t know you were dating someone. And you know, I love it. I love that like people can like see my social accounts and like, not know anything about my personal life. And I’m free to like, kind of just live my personal life and peace, you know, yeah, that’s good.
Grant Gayle 09:34
I think something like this goes for everybody, especially if you know, you see work as something that you just go there and make your money. And that’s it. You don’t want to unpack anything at work.
Grant Gayle 09:43
And this can be not just for LGBTQ people, but even so straight people, you know, they don’t want to reveal parts of their personal life at work. So everyone has their own walls that they want to keep up and that’s totally valid, right?
Dimitrius 09:55
Yeah, that is for sure. As LGBTQ people, how much do you feel feel that we should be able to share about our personal lives at work.
Alex Gonzalez 10:04
I mean, I feel like we should be able to do it like as much as straight people can, you know, like, within reason, like, you know, I should be able to talk about, like, my dating life and my partner freely. But I mean, you know, I mean, about like sex and stuff.
Alex Gonzalez 10:20
I mean, like, you know, I don’t want to hear about, you know, that orgy you had the other night? Or like, I actually I kind of do I mean, I’m totally don’t mind being, you know. But, you know, I mean, like you did, I don’t necessarily want to, like, hear it from, you know, everyone I need.
Alex Gonzalez 10:36
And I know, like, you know, even if, like, straight people were to talk about, like, you know, their sex layers, you would probably get a call to HR within the next hour or something. But, you know, just within reason, just like, as much as the average person would be able to talk about, you know,
Grant Gayle 10:52
and one of the things to point out is that sexuality does not necessarily mean sticks in some people when they’re asked to state the definition of gay or lesbian. Some people will just say something as simple as it’s when a boy likes a boy or a girl likes a girl, and it has nothing to do with sex.
Grant Gayle 11:09
So you know, we talk about your family life, you know, who your partner is, your kids, whether they’re, you know, your biological kids are adopted, that should be fair game for everybody. Right? Yeah, exactly. It’s heteronormative society. And unfortunately, it’s not fair game. In many work environments.
Dimitrius 11:25
Individually, Garrett, you’ve touched on how comfortable you are with sharing a lot of your personal life, Alex, you have as well, for me, for me, personally, I know that I could, you know, be a lot more open and still be able to retain my job because I kick ass in general in my job.
Dimitrius 11:43
But I also understand the hesitancy especially in a corporate environment of sharing, like you’re, even though I work at a place that’s very poses himself is very LGBTQ friendly, put it that way. And but I still know that there are still office politics, and you still have to play the game sometimes.
Dimitrius 12:04
And you still have to present yourself a certain way. And I know that there could still be some people who are just like, I mean, I’m y’all have pride events and things like this, but I still feel like, I need to not be as open about that still, and I can see where they’re coming from.
Dimitrius 12:24
Because yeah, sure the company can support gay people, but your team, your department, you know, your location in America, you know, can still affect your ability to move up in a particular given situation, or just be happy with coming to work, you can have a horrible tyrant, bigoted asshole Of a boss, and who is, you know, protected by HR for some reason, and so you don’t feel comfortable being your complete self. Even in that instance,
Alex Gonzalez 12:58
ya know, I definitely get, you know, having to play the game, thankfully, not where I am now. But, you know, in jobs I’ve had in the past, I think, before I like was doing journalism full time, I was like an office assistant at a private university in Dallas, you know, I won’t say the exact name. But if you’re from around here, you can probably guess but, and it’s very much white sis traitements game at the time.
Grant Gayle 13:24
At my job, my new job, actually, we have what’s called employee network groups where people who belong to a particular group or class can come together and you know, talk about their struggles in real life, and you know, how they’re how they share things in common in the workplace, we have one for women in engineering, we have one for people of color.
Grant Gayle 13:45
And we also have one for LGBTQ people, which is fantastic. That being said, my new job is in a virtual environment. So you know, I’m not in an office environment. So when I’m talking to people on the phone, I still have to be careful about what I say too.
Dimitrius 14:01
Absolutely, I totally agree with that. And understand we have what’s called Well, I won’t say what it’s called. But we have stuff like that similar to that, where you can connect with people who we have for LGBTQ, of course, we have one specifically for black women, and one for specifically for just general white people to be a part of, and it’s good that we have those and everything like that.
Dimitrius 14:28
But then again, you know, like I mentioned earlier, it just depends on the scenario that you’re in for the work environment, everything like that. But I’m glad to know that there are more places that have those groups for you to network in and possibly find a mentor, maybe someone who is in a higher position, who maybe isn’t in your department say but who is someone who can kind of look out for you, you know, if you decide to come out and really own that and, you know, seek other opportunities within in your organization.
Dimitrius 15:01
So I encourage people to do that. If you have one join one, I’ve joined one at my current position. And I think I did a panel last year where we talked about the differences between people who are out, and people will know not the differences between people who are out but differences between people who are very feminine and flamboyant, and people who are not in the workplace.
Dimitrius 15:22
And so I was, of course, speaking for the flamboyant people. And people resonated with that. So there are people out there who if you’re a part of these groups, and you are in a higher level position, there are people out there that need your mentorship, they need for you to advocate for them. And they need for you to reach out and show them that it’s possible to exist in these spaces.
Dimitrius 15:43
Sometimes you like I mentioned, like we’ve all mentioned, you got to play the game. But that’s just corporate, but I highly encourage you all, if you are like an executive director, or anything of that nature to, you know, make yourself available to that. So talking about differences, when is it can you think of a time where you notice a difference between how straight employees retreated at work versus your LGBTQ peers?
Grant Gayle 16:11
This is something that I have kind of subconsciously applied to my life as a whole. And I realized this very recently, but I realized that I am a white, sis male, and I am straight passing. And that’s significant, because I am treated based on how I’m perceived. And when you’re perceived as something that’s considered the norm, then you may end up being unaware of the treatment that others are receiving.
Grant Gayle 16:39
So I have to really take that in stride. But I also realized that I am straight passing because it’s a self defense mechanism that I have pre programmed from childhood all the way through adolescence and adulthood. And that is how I survive in my environment, to be quite honest.
Grant Gayle 16:57
But you know, given my position as a sis white, straight passing, gay man, I have to keep my eyes extra peeled to see how others are treated that are not what I am. Fortunately, I’ve never seen it directed at others, but I’ve only been I’ve been kind of oblivious to it. But you know, like you said, I should be paying more attention to it. But I’m glad I haven’t seen it. But if I do see it, I’m going to get to look for it.
Grant Gayle 17:23
And, you know, speak up because we are encouraged to speak up if something does happen, because we live in a time where that it’s becoming increasingly intolerable. And it’s a violation, it’s harassment, its determination, you can’t do that in the workplace. So when you see it, you report it. And you know, you don’t have to, shouldn’t have to worry about retaliation, because that’s forbidden, too. But again, still playing the game.
Alex Gonzalez 17:47
Okay, back on what Grant said, I mean, you know, him like, I liked how he acknowledged that he is a straight passing person. Me, I feel like I could be straightening if I wanted to, I don’t really care to be but yeah, but you know, I didn’t notice. Like, sometimes people would go to lunch, you know, without me like a lot of like, the people.
Alex Gonzalez 18:10
And this was like, at my old job at the predominantly white private university, that like, you know, during lunch, some people would go without me or like, and, you know, I thought it was like, because I was the new dude. But then like, the person who was hired after me was like, invited to all these things.
Alex Gonzalez 18:25
And I’m just like, okay, you know, what, talk them, I don’t need them. But you know, I don’t think anybody really like said anything directly to me or, like said anything in my presence that kind of set off an alarm during that time. But you know, I have people like in everyday life that asked me about, like, gender pronouns, or like, you know, they say, Oh, why does this person use they them pronouns?
Alex Gonzalez 18:49
You know, that’s not grammatically correct, or like, I just don’t understand it. And, you know, I mean, I’m not like, I don’t want to say like, I’m not like, super like, when buoyant. And, you know, that’s not me saying, like, Oh, I’m not saying, but it’s also like me saying, like, you know, I’m just kind of a very simple minimalistic natured kind of person. But, and I think because of that people feel comfortable saying things to me that they wouldn’t feel comfortable saying to someone who is more expressive, or is more gender non conforming, you know,
Dimitrius 19:22
Right. Yeah. I understand that completely. Absolutely.
Alex Gonzalez 19:25
Like, it’s like, why would you feel comfortable saying that to me, knowing that I am a member of the LGBTQ community, but, you know, you wouldn’t dare say that to someone else who was more expressive
Dimitrius 19:38
right? Now, they wouldn’t. Absolutely, they wouldn’t for sure. I’ve seen that firsthand, not just at work, but in general, where they’re like, oh, my gosh, there’s a dramatic queen, you know, who has to be the center of attention and stuff. And it’s just like, You know what, like, I’ve said it I think I said on a previous episode, even where I think there are people on The more feminine side who, quote unquote, make it their whole personality.
Dimitrius 20:04
And there are people who are on the masculine side who make straight being as straight passing as possible, so that they blend in more their own personality. So it’s just a matter of just respecting people regardless. Because you don’t, you know, there’s a reason behind all of that, you know, I won’t get into it now, because we’ll be here all day. But there’s a reason for that. There’s a reason why people do those things.
Dimitrius 20:28
And it’s a lot of things that are internalized. And at the end of the day, if you’re just treating each other with respect, that allows those people to kind of have the space to work those things out within themselves. Anyway. So for me, that’s really what that comes down to, for my experiences seeing people who are treated differently, LGBTQ versus straight. I worked with kids, of course, for about 10 years.
Dimitrius 20:52
And the difference in just how men are treated versus women are already kind of off anyway, because I remember I was working a job in a daycare facility while I was in college and everything. And the men weren’t allowed to change diapers, like you can be a man and change diapers, or help out and change diapers. And they really didn’t even want to be in like the, the infant rooms at all.
Dimitrius 21:17
So which I was like, whatever, y’all can change these funky diapers, I gotta change nothing. But, and then it got more into I noticed where I got a job as a supervisor, at a gym, and the kids section. That’s what I was hard for. I did a really good job. You know, the kids, when the parents had Zumba class, we had kids Zumba class, kid, whatever else class, they were taking how to kid version of it, nobody else was doing that.
Dimitrius 21:43
But I would get complaints they would like, my supervisor would tell me Yeah, someone came in, they were like, um, you know, why do you have Why is there a gay dude, as like the main supervisor of the kids department, that kind of just seems weird, you know, sort of thing. And then after a while, I did start getting treated really weird by everyone in general there. And that was when I learned especially kind of how I am now with in a corporate environment where I’m just like, I’m here to work.
Dimitrius 22:16
And I don’t want to bother with y’all at all. I want to do my job, I want to be known for doing my job. I want to be known for doing excellent things. So that on paper, it doesn’t matter what you think, because you can’t do anything to me anyway. So I That’s why I’ve say that I understand why people have that hesitancy because we are seeing, you know, in the news and everything, where there’s just this people’s minds are just warped by what certain political proponents are telling them and instilling in them and indoctrinating them to think, and they’re not thinking for themselves.
Dimitrius 22:55
They’re just going with, you know, whatever talking point they feel is right, or what they believe in. And so it really does become where people feel like they aren’t safe to be themselves at work. Because what if the next president we get is like, Nope, can’t say gay at all, whether you’re at school or not, and then they’ve already come out. And it’s not like they can just go back, you know. So I completely understand that. I completely understand that. And I have experienced where I was one of those people that was treated differently.
Dimitrius 23:29
And that sucked. Luckily, I was able to leave that place and go somewhere else. But not everyone is that lucky. And so I just want to mention that that I see. I see you guys, I see what it is that you experience. And I see what it is that drives you to just be kind of unsure about your position in general, as well as in the workplace.
Dimitrius 23:53
So talking about individual experiences, we are all of us within the LGBTQ umbrella on this call, but we have very different experiences from one another. I feel like so I guess my next question is, we’re not really question but because we have such different experiences, I guess I just want to see how different they are. So I know for me personally, I’ll go first.
Dimitrius 24:17
For me being a very feminine black gay man going to work and I sometimes have on heels and everything. I know that if people had the opportunity to treat me differently, and to discard me as a person, they would, but I don’t give them that opportunity because I do everything excellently. And I think it goes back to a lot of just the black experience in general, where we feel like we have to do our job 10 times better anyway.
Dimitrius 24:49
Because if we do not then it just we immediately get targeted and cast aside and not taken seriously. So it’s just it’s this hyper vigilance that I always had Have, whenever I in any work environment, where it’s like, Nope, I’m going to make sure that I’m always on point that everything’s documented, emails are kept for 500 years printed out, like all of that, I do that. And it’s some, it’s some people are like, Oh my God, that’s overkill.
Dimitrius 25:18
No, like, No, it’s not because I guarantee you, somewhere down the line, someone’s gonna say, why you? Why didn’t you do this, and I’m gonna have to pull up the email, where word for word, this is exactly what I did and why. And you were a part of this conversation happens all the time.
Dimitrius 25:34
And so that being a normal thing, for me, it’s not the same for people who aren’t like me, who aren’t for them buoyant and black, and they don’t always already have a target on their back anyway, much less when they’re in the workplace, just in general, you know,
Grant Gayle 25:53
As a gay, straight passing man, let’s say, in the workplace, something that’s unique to me is that, you know, the people that have learned that I’m gay, usually are women. And that’s because they have passed my vibe check for whatever reason.
Grant Gayle 26:11
And it’s usually women, because there’s something about women, I feel like I can trust them with my sexuality, I feel like, you know, they’re going to treat me with more love and respect and kindness in that kind of environments. And I have formed those relationships with in front of other people.
Grant Gayle 26:30
And sometimes those relationships have gotten, let’s just say, a little flirtatious, you know, I would go hang out with my gal pals at work, and we’d be you know, cutting up a little bit. And then some of the guys at work, think that we’re flirting, or that I liked them. Some of them, I thought we were fuck.
Grant Gayle 26:49
But then what happens next is they approach the female coworker and they’re like, there’s something going on between you two, like, what’s going on? And then the female coworker has to be like, Okay, you think we’re flirting, but he’s actually gay. That’s why he’s so close with me.
Grant Gayle 27:10
And they’re like, oh, okay, I get it. So there have been multiple instances of that, where, you know, people have learned that I’m gay in the workplace, because of the relationships that I formed with female coworkers. And it went through that process, because I’m straight passing.
Grant Gayle 27:26
People don’t think that I’m gay, if I’m flirting with a female coworker, if I am perceived a certain way. And it’s kind of, I think it’s entertaining when I come out to people inadvertently, and they’re shocked or surprised, or they’re caught off guard. So that’s been my experience, it’s never been a negative experience. In fact, I take it in stride, but I’m sure many people who were in my position and are perceived similar ways as me and workplace could probably relate. So that’s mine.
Alex Gonzalez 27:58
I get it, I get it. And you know, like, there have been like, some instances, like, you know, I mean, I can very friendly, but some people like mistake that for flirtiness. And you know, when you are like, openly bisexual, you know, people don’t always know what to make of it.
Alex Gonzalez 28:14
And, you know, I remember one instance, back in like, 2018 2019, like, there was like, someone I worked with, and, you know, we kind of have like a running joke about how like, I was her work husband, she was my work wife. And then one time we were like, Africa work dinner, and then her actual has been was there. And he’s like, oh, so I hear you’re my wife’s work. Husband.
Alex Gonzalez 28:36
And I don’t know, it seemed like it was coming from a really like, place of jealousy. And I was just like, assuring like the husband, hey, you know, nothing’s going on between us. It’s just like, a whole friendly thing. It’s not serious. And yeah, and that that second, another thing, a lot of straight men are very, like, over protective in a very traditionally masculine way
Dimitrius 28:57
I feel to grant with your situation, do you ever feel like they feel threatened that you are able to easily navigate having relationships with your female coworkers,
Grant Gayle 29:08
I look at body language, there was one male coworker who learned that I was gay through being close to a female coworker. And I can tell that every time we pass each other, he had a certain look like, like, I’m watching you, like he was the protective of one co worker, whereas, you know, other male co workers have opened up to me even more, and they’re like, Hey, he’s a chill, do. I like him?
Grant Gayle 29:32
So it’s very mixed. You never know what you’re gonna get. But you have to read your audience. And you still you don’t back down, you still, you know, bring yourself to work as you are. And if they try to start stuff with you, then you know you make it known that that’s not good place to do that. So it’s just case by case basis,
Dimitrius 29:53
But slightly off topic. So have you have either of you ever had to Like that someone someone try you in some kind of way. And if you if you ever experienced that, how did you handle that? I know that it’s a little bit off topic, but I’m just curious. I mean, like
Alex Gonzalez 30:10
With the whole work has been worked white thing. I mean, I feel like you know if I wasn’t like being like straightforward about it if I would have just been like, oh, yeah, I mean, your girl like talking at work if I would have just like, egged him on, I feel like he would have like, gotten that, but I was just like, reassured him like, No, I mean, we just do our thing. We’re not like doing anything like behind your back.
Alex Gonzalez 30:31
Like, I feel like honesty is the best policy and you know, you’ve just got to be yourself, be you. And you know, if people want to try you, they want to try you. But you know, when I’m in the workplace, I do my thing and my business, I turn in my stuff, and then I go home. That’s pretty much me. So if you want to try me, I don’t know what the issue is. But we can talk it out like adult. Yeah,
Grant Gayle 30:51
I want to just jump in real quick, as you said, you had that work, husband work wife dynamic was somewhat I had that too. In fact, you know, I had a work wife. And when I was about to have my work, wife, number two, I was like, well, I already have a work wife, you could be my work, Mistress.
Grant Gayle 31:08
And then I was friends with an older lady at work. And I’m just like, you can be my work, Mom, how about that. And so I think people kind of understood that I had that dynamic with those female coworkers. But fortunately, no one’s ever come up to me and tried me because I feel like I had established my reputation in that workplace as someone who is serious and hardworking, and I know when to put on my serious face.
Grant Gayle 31:30
And keep it separate from my silly face, you know? So it’s all about how you present yourself in certain modes. So if you can keep that separate, and people understand that you can do that, then there’s no reason to have beef with you. At least that’s my experience.
Dimitrius 31:46
Yeah, usually, absolutely. Yelling, so calm, I just wanted to that was, that’s curious. Because certainly, I mean, I’m not gonna, I’m not gonna be like, I just cuss people out at work. But if someone does try me, I guess I gather then like, but professionally, I usually, especially if it’s over email, like, I’m a writer, you’re not going to win, I’m sorry. And so that’s when the whole will actually on day such and such 2019, you said this.
Dimitrius 32:15
And that’s, that’s when it comes into play, where I have to be like, ah, let’s just shut this down completely. But there, there have been instances where I have had to, like, go into a conference room with someone and be like, Look, you, I don’t know what the deal is, but we’re gonna hash it out.
Dimitrius 32:35
And then I’m gonna go back to doing my job. And then you’re just gonna leave me alone and go back to doing your job, like you’re supposed to, which you’re not doing right now, that type of thing. And I was not calm about it. I was, you know, very much trying to make it understood that this is not how it’s gonna go. So yeah, I was just curious. Because I know, times will come up where, you know, someone will try you.
Dimitrius 32:59
And I feel like sometimes, depending on how you present, people will be more comfortable trying you versus others, like we’ve mentioned earlier, because I was a supervisor. And that was a part of it. That was a part of what would make some of my direct reports, you know, think that they could talk to people any kind of way or me any kind of way was because it was this feminine gay guy that’s trying to tell me what to do that I’d have to be like, well, actually, I shouldn’t have to tell you what to do at all, because you’re an adult, but you’re not doing what you’re supposed to do.
Dimitrius 33:31
So it’s actually more embarrassing for you than anything else. And so that’s, that’s, you know, that’s kind of how I’d have to handle things. But yeah, just curious. Just curious what Charles little, which was experiences were with that. So onto something a little bit more positive. How do you feel that companies, what do you feel that companies can do to make sure that it feels as inclusive as possible for LGBTQ employees,
Alex Gonzalez 34:02
I mean, you know, like, just like, treat me like you would like anyone else. But also, like, where I am now, where I am now, I definitely feel like I’m valued. Like, my presence is appreciated. And, you know, and sometimes they do value like my expertise and what I bring to the table, like, they’ll sometimes will ask me, Hey, can you look over this marketing deck and make sure like, it’s, you know, safe to it, make sure it’s like, politically correct, make sure it’s conscious for Latinx people, Hispanic people, LGBTQ people.
Alex Gonzalez 34:33
And so yeah, I mean, I value that I value being able to do that. I mean, because like, if a straight person is looking over it, or if a white person is looking over it and might not get, you know, all the little details, you know, it might, there might be something that could be considered offensive that a straight person wouldn’t catch or a white person wouldn’t catch, you know, stuff like that. So like where my voice is valued and where, you know, my insight is appreciated. You know, for
Grant Gayle 34:59
Some People from people who are LGBT, some may see work as just a place to make a paycheck and having an anti discrimination policy in place is just really the only barrier that needs to be broken down, meaning that you will be fired for existing in that space. And that’s enough for some people.
Grant Gayle 35:19
But for others where, you know, let’s just say they’re committing a majority of their waking hours to their job, they want to make sure that they’re, you know, Snapchat same, but like you said, Alex, appreciate it and wants it and valued in that space. And having those groups and networks available to them, you know, just so that they have some sort of sense of validation or community that others have are leading by example.
Grant Gayle 35:47
And that, hey, this space is for you. And we want you here, and we value you. And that goes a long way. But, you know, I can see both sides of you know, what is considered enough and what more can be done, you just got to find the right employer, but not everyone is lucky enough to, you know, land in that right employer.
Dimitrius 36:05
Unfortunately, I have some friends who work at some places that are very hostile towards LGBTQ men, they very much drink the Ron DeSantis Kool Aid. So it’s unfortunate that they do not have do not feel like they have that job security that they so desperately need that we all so desperately need right now.
Dimitrius 36:28
And so yeah, I think I agree with you grant, when you mentioned the foundation of that being that you’re not going to be fired based on discrimination, having that like, not just as a policy for companies, but thankfully, we mostly have it kind of in the legal world and everything else. But absolutely, I agree with that. I agree. I will say that. And I want to also echo the sentiment of appreciation.
Dimitrius 36:57
And being consistent in your not just your appreciation of your LGBT LGBTQ community employees, but also just kind of standing firm in being consistent, and re emphasizing certain things. So like right now would be a great opportunity for a lot of companies with everything that’s going on with all of the attacks against transgender people, feminine presenting people, what have you, for them to say, look, we know what’s going on in the world.
Dimitrius 37:28
But we want to make it very clear that this is a safe space for you. My job didn’t do that. They told people they said, hey, they sent out a like a thing this weekend, and said, hey, just be on guard, you know, we’re seeing where people are organizing and attacking transgender people, because of the school shooting, people are becoming you know, radicalized and everything. So just be on guard be safe, you don’t have to go out don’t go out, sort of thing.
Dimitrius 37:56
So they did a fantastic job with that. And I would encourage companies to do things that way, too. Of course, like Alex, you mentioned, if you’re going to put out some sort of email blast or something of that nature, you want to engage that audience just to make sure that you’re covering all the bases you need to cover and that it will read correctly to the intended audience.
Dimitrius 38:20
But I do encourage when you see those things happening in the news and everything like that, that you’re telling your your social media managers or whatever, that, you know, this might be a good opportunity for us to let our employees know that we don’t just to remind them, that we don’t stand for this, that we value them. And that this, how they identify, it’s not what we take into consideration when considering their performance or whether they belong with the company. Absolutely.
Alex Gonzalez 38:52
Exactly. And especially when you know, there are things in the news that can be triggering, that can be you know, that can bring back really bad memories and, or can remind you that you know, you are a minority in this world. You know, it’s nice to have that reassurance from the people you work for.
Dimitrius 39:11
For sure. What advice I feel like we all everyone on this call has been in the workforce for a while. What advice would you give a younger, professional, LGBTQ professional starting out and they are struggling to find their place and possibly their identity in the workplace.
Grant Gayle 39:32
So first I The advice I would have is ask yourself what your job means to you and, you know, realize that everyone’s needs in their job are going to be different. No two people are the same. You know, for some, it’s just a place to make your money and that’s it. But if you really want to thrive in your career, it’s best to have that kind of assurance that your identity as a whole is going to be appreciated.
Grant Gayle 39:56
And that’s just going to foster an environment for having To support to launch a career that you’re actually wanting to go in, depending on the environment that you’re in, you see if you can find a support group and look, find role models in your company that, you know, demonstrate to you that, you know, hey, there are some role models here, someone to look up to someone that has carved their career, their pathway in that organization, and be like, hey, well, you know, I can do this too, they did it.
Grant Gayle 40:24
So can I, another thing I would say is, develop your own vibe check in, you have to be able to learn your environments, and know who can come into your circle. And it’s not easy, you’re gonna have to talk to people over and over and over again, to see who really belongs in your circle.
Grant Gayle 40:43
And once you’ve formed that circle, you still have to remain on guard, who you let in that circle and monitor what information goes in and out of that circle. So it you just gotta find your own way to navigate that environments. And the better you become at that, the more success you’re gonna have.
Grant Gayle 41:02
And, you know, it is a little burdensome, that you have to navigate your workplace in the world in ways that straight people do not. But that’s just, it’s playing the game, like we’ve all been saying. Yeah. So some people are lucky. And there are no landmines around. And it’s all unicorns and rainbows. But for others, it’s not, but it’s just such a predicament, the what you can end up in, in terms of the job or organization. So just learn your environment. And make the best of it as you can. Right?
Alex Gonzalez 41:39
Yeah. And I really did want to stress what Grant said about developing your own vibe, check your own sort of like litmus test to see, you know, is it safe to talk about these things around these people, you know, is my coworker a safe person to talk to and you know, it starts off with simple things.
Alex Gonzalez 41:57
Like, you know, my, even if you were to say like my partner, if the person you’re talking to like side I do, you’re like, oh, this may not be a fit person to talk to about like LGBTQ issues. Or say, you know, like, say, like air, if you were to report your partner has by like a gender neutral pronoun like they them.
Alex Gonzalez 42:18
And, you know, if they, like, start asking a bunch of questions like, like, oh, are there two of them? Or like, what does this mean? Or like, do they use this pronoun doesn’t make sense? Like, what is my, then you kind of like, have a better sense of where they stand on the issue?
Alex Gonzalez 42:33
Or like, how much of it they understand. But yeah, I feel like, you know, you got to start small. And then, you know, if they can’t, like talk, the vibe, check on the small stuff than, you know, you know, they’re not a safe person to talk to about the big stuff.
Dimitrius 42:47
Right? Yeah, I agree with all of that. I agree with especially finding your tribe, at work, or at least people that you feel comfortable. If you’re like me, and you’re minimal. It’s like bare minimum communication, at least you know, people who you can go to.
Dimitrius 43:05
And if you’re wanting to seek development, or what have you, I will say to, on the side of, if you’re just struggling to kind of find your place and your identity, I go to therapy, and I have no shame in that I would go to therapy for the rest of my life, I have no issue with that. Because we live in a world that constantly constantly tries to convince us that we are worthless human beings, and that we’re everything that’s wrong with society, and everything like that.
Dimitrius 43:39
And so, most, most of the time, like myself, I can kind of push it to the side, and go, Okay, whatever, y’all are crazy. But you do have those days where you get really caught up in work, and you begin to tie yourself worth to how you’re performing at work. And I encourage people to number one, don’t do that.
Dimitrius 44:04
And number two, like if you’re if you’re really caught up in that, and you’re really just like, I don’t know, what I’m doing. I don’t know, if I belong here, I just don’t know what’s going on. To really make I, I recommend going to therapy, I go to therapy when I feel that way. And it’s really helpful to get someone to kind of break that down and separate all those components that are going on at that time, and give you kind of another perspective on things.
Dimitrius 44:36
Either that or someone that you really trust at work, like we’ve mentioned, that you can go to and go I just I don’t know if I’m doing a good job. Sometimes you can’t go to your supervisor, maybe you don’t get one on ones every week. Or maybe your supervisor is just an asshole and you don’t feel comfortable talking to them anyway.
Dimitrius 44:54
You know, like we’ve mentioned, find your tribe and I also recommend there’s nothing wrong with going to therapy, over works if at all, or in general, sometimes you just need to talk to someone who is completely, someone you do not know, and who is professional at breaking these things down for us.
Dimitrius 45:16
So that you can kind of, like I mentioned, get that perspective, and you can start to hone in on what’s going on, and what it is that you want for yourself, and then you can move on and go from there. So that’s really my recommendation there. Yeah. And
Alex Gonzalez 45:29
I think, you know, back on what you said, you know, thinking about what you want, and honing in on that, you know, I remember in my early 20s, I was still concerned about playing the game, you know, like just drinking the Kool Aid trying to fit in with all these, like, no straight white male executives.
Alex Gonzalez 45:45
But now it’s like, now that I am writing full time, you know, working with editors who value my voice, who value what I bring to the table, you know, I’m like, hey, you know, I’m going to talk about things like I’m going to use, like gender neutral terms, like partner or they then when I’m talking about my partner, or you know, I’m going to, you know, be I’m going to talk about like doing stuff like going to try to, you know, you hired me because of what I brought to the table because of my voice because of what sets me apart.
Alex Gonzalez 46:15
So, you know, I’m not going to water myself down. I mean, that doesn’t mean I’m going to be you know, talking about you know, getting drunk all the time, or like, you know, my sexcapades and all that. But, you know, I’m going to talk about the same things and eat straight person would talk about like girls, or like, Oh, my husband did this or, you know, my wife and I went on a date to that sushi place last night. You know, I’ve just want to be able to carry on normal conversation as anyone else would.
Dimitrius 46:39
Absolutely.
