Death is one of the very last things we want to talk about. We don’t even want to think about the idea that we won’t always be around. However, that doesn’t mean there’s not a lot to discuss.

What do you want your last moments to be like? How can you help a loved one transition in a peaceful manner? Are there people trained specifically to work with the dying?

I’m joined by Raiya Iverson as we explore the concept of being an end of life doula. We also talk about how she helps families and loved ones cope with their own mortality.

Raiya Iverson  00:56

You know, in my experience, you know, when people are at the end of their life, and they’ve had the, you know, the chance to kind of prepare for it, the dying are typically sleeping most of the time. And so it really does, you know, it kind of comes down to being able to take care of the families and, and loved ones and visitors, you know, people coming in just…

Dimitrius  01:22

it comes as no surprise that we do not like to think, much less talk about death. That’s probably the very last thing many of us would ever want to talk about. But it is something we all eventually encounter, whether it’s ourselves or someone else, no matter what your beliefs are. The truth is that death is a very scary concept.

Dimitrius  01:42

And it’s very difficult at times to reconcile the idea that will no longer be around someday, and that it can happen at any time, especially in the fast paced world we live in now, where we place so much emphasis on material things that in the end won’t matter, because we can’t take any of it with us. And because we’re so focused on those things that ultimately don’t matter.

Dimitrius  02:02

We never stopped to consider how we’ll feel about our lives once we reached the end of it, which is understandable. I mean, I don’t want to think about that either. That’s depressing as hell right. But at some point, I think we all need to keep that in mind. What do you want your final moments to look like to feel like how do you want to look back on your life? And who do you want to be surrounded by?

Dimitrius  02:22

My guest today is Raiya Iverson, whose profession is what is known as an end of life doula. You’re probably familiar with doulas and midwives, who assist in the birthing process, and her role is to assist in the dying process. Today I’ll be speaking with her about her profession, and about her views on death, and will be considered to be the end. So let’s get started.

Dimitrius  02:48

Welcome to the Dimitrius show, where I learned how to walk through my shadows, picking the flowers I’ve grown through sheer resilience. And I may not know enough yet to start teaching, but I’m going to keep convincing you to keep pushing. I’m Dimitrius and this is my life after speaking.

Dimitrius  03:18

Those who have worked in palliative or hospice care, know firsthand the wide variety of emotions of those who are faced with their own mortality. Understandably, those emotions can range from denial, fear, anger, remorse, and eventually acceptance. There can also be some regrets.

Dimitrius  03:36

According to Old Colony hospice and palliative care, these regrets can be wishing they’d had the courage to be their true selves, wishing they hadn’t worked so hard, wishing they’d had the courage to express their feelings, wishing they’d stayed in touch with their friends and wishing that they’d let themselves be happier.

Dimitrius  03:53

Again, we sometimes get caught up in material things, and making sure we’re as busy as possible that we forget to work on our own happiness on our own mental health, and to form and maintain close connections with people learning about those common regrets put a lot into perspective. It also made me wonder about the families of these individuals who are approaching the end of their lives.

Dimitrius  04:16

How do they cope with knowing their loved ones are about to depart into the afterlife, I can say from personal experience that I’m still trying to figure that out. My grandmother recently passed away six months ago, and I still have my days where I find myself about to pick up the phone and call her. I still have my days where I find a recipe on a notepad that she wrote down. And I want to ask her about it so bad.

Dimitrius  04:41

Thankfully, when she passed, she was surrounded by family. She accepted what was happening pretty quickly, which was remarkable to me, and she went peacefully. But it is such a heavy and transformative experience all around and it is very difficult to navigate on our own.

Dimitrius  04:57

So it would be nice to have someone around who could help people and everyone involved process all of it. My guest today Raiya Iverson does exactly that. As an end of life doula, she is trained to help those nearing the end of their lives with their physical, emotional and spiritual needs. She works with the dying as well as their families providing comfort during a very difficult time. I wanted her to share her experiences working in this unique field. So let’s bring her on!

Raiya Iverson  05:26

I own a business called Earthside Holistic, and part of my business is end of life work. And I teach and certify people to be end of life, doulas, as well as take care of people at the end of their life as well.

Dimitrius  05:43

So I also noticed that you do not only just end of life, but you do kind of from birth all the way to end of life. Is that correct?

Raiya Iverson  05:52

It is correct. Yes, I do. I call myself a life doula working with the birthing, the dying and everything in between. So I hold space for people no matter where they are, what transition that they’re experiencing and why.

Dimitrius  06:06

And that’s interesting, because normally, of course, when I think of the word doula, I think of just birth. But it’s also interesting to be on the other side, and also have a doula for that transition as well.

Raiya Iverson  06:19

Yeah, yeah, it is a bit of a new concept that people are starting to, to see that is available. It’s definitely not well known. It’s people like me trying to really advocate for it and get it out there and, and show that it’s, it’s a valuable resource for end of life care.

Dimitrius  06:39

And so what would you say you tell someone that’s never heard about it? What is the usual reaction there?

Raiya Iverson  06:46

People kind of have all kinds of reactions. There are some people who are super curious about it, and they want to know more others don’t. I mean, you say death doula, or end of life doula, and they don’t want you to say another word. They just want to walk away. Yes.

Raiya Iverson  07:03

Most people don’t even know that, you know, doulas exist as a resource and death. But I think that probably a lot. I would say most people, even though they might not know what it is, they’re willing to sort of have a conversation and understand what we do and why we’re here. There are end of life doula is out there doing the work. But there, there isn’t, as many, like you would see in the birth world, end of life is a little bit harder, you know, get get the people who are able to work in that in that kind of a field. So…

Dimitrius  07:37

Well, I’m glad you’ve at least got some people who are open to the discussion of end of life, and what that entails, because we don’t really think about plumbing, we sort of don’t want to think about right, those last moments and how we want to spend them. That’s something that’s so far ahead. In the future, we don’t really want to fit in grasp that quite yet.

Raiya Iverson  08:02

Right. Right. But you know, I mean, sometimes we never get to have that conversation. And then people don’t know, what it is that we envision, or what we would like to see happen. And it really is a conversation that is better had sooner than later. So absolutely, I definitely encourage the conversations, it’s, it’s not like talking about it is going to make you die. You know, it’s, it’s just bringing it to the surface of you know, people’s awareness that we’re all headed in that direction. So

Dimitrius  08:37

I think there’s a conception there that, you know, we have some people who, you know, you put you say something, and you’re kind of putting it out in the universe, and stuff like that. But for me, personally, I mean, you’re not really putting it in the universe, it’s going to happen eventually.

Dimitrius  08:51

So I think it’s important for me watching some loved ones pass. I think it’s important because they were very fortunate to, in their last moments, they were surrounded by family, and they, you know, didn’t really have any regrets or anything of that nature. And so it was a smooth transition.

Dimitrius  09:11

And it wasn’t like they, you know, were alone and they just didn’t know what to what what was going on. They were just out of it, you know, that sort of thing. And in knowing that, that was when, you know, I consider it like when I when it’s when it’s time to go I just I would want to for to be as smooth as possible. Right? Just feel the peace, you know? Yeah. So, as far as an end of life doula, what exactly is it that you if you want to just explain what it is you do?

Raiya Iverson  09:45

We are compassionate service and companionship, you know, each job kind of looks just a little bit different because no death is the same but some of the kind of typical things that we do, you know, could look like sitting at the bedside with With the dying, just holding that space, listening to stories, if they’re still responsive and alert, offering oral care, that’s a, that’s a big one for helping reposition to prevent bedsores, but also a lot of the work that we do is actually caring for the family.

Raiya Iverson  10:18

You know, in my experience, you know, when people are at the end of their life, and they’ve had the, you know, the chance to kind of prepare for it, the dying are typically sleeping most of the time. And so it really does, you know, kind of comes down to being able to take care of the families and, and loved ones and visitors, you know, people coming in just, you know, and so that can kind of look like cooking meals and, and greeting guests and, you know, having helping family members understand paperwork that they might have received from hospice or funeral homes or something like that, you know, just, you know.

Raiya Iverson  11:01

Being able to have resources also available to the client and the loved ones, you know, sometimes they need a social worker to come in or account, you know, somebody to counsel them, you know, based on different religious beliefs, maybe they they want somebody to come in, and they don’t quite know who to call. So kind of that that kind of stuff, just, you know, being able to sort of flow with whatever the family might need. In that moment is, is really what what doulas are kind of prepared to do.

Dimitrius  11:33

Well, I just want to say I’m very thankful you mentioned the, the paperwork aspect of it. That I’m very thankful that you offer to help with that. Because that is yeah, it because you’re when you’re in that moment. Yes, it is. And you’re in that moment, and you’re having these papers kind of pushed in your face, and you’re having to make decisions. And that is very difficult. It’s very difficult.

Raiya Iverson  12:01

Such a sensitive time for people and they don’t want to be dealing with paperwork. And so to have somebody kind of say, this is what this paragraph means. And this, you know, just kind of summarize things so that people don’t feel like they have to be fully engaged in you know, but yeah, it it isn’t. It’s a definite, you know, it’s important to, to get through that kind of stuff. But to have some support there. It’s definitely useful.

Dimitrius  12:27

So I also on your bio, there’s mention of you being an empath. Yeah, so tell me a little bit about that,

Raiya Iverson  12:36

oh, just having the ability to be hyper aware and hyper sensitive of what people may be feeling or thinking in just reading the room, you know, being able to sense where, where I might be needed, you know, and a lot of times just knowing when to be quiet, and just hold the space and not not say a word, sometimes people don’t want you to talk.

Raiya Iverson  13:02

And so it really is just, you know, part of this work, being able to just be hypersensitive to the needs of people and listening to you know, the kind of the subtle languages the the expressions on their face or the body language, it really does tell you volumes sometimes. So, being an empath comes in really handy in this work. Oh, yeah, hyper hyper tune in to what they might need. So…

Dimitrius  13:32

It definitely comes in handy, especially mentioning the resources that you provided earlier. And then I also wonder, because that’s, there’s a lot of energy going on. During that time. You and you’re not just dealing with the person who is getting ready to transition. You’re also like you mentioned dealing with the family. There’s a lot of emotions, energy, so much going on, what do you do to make sure that you are protected?

Raiya Iverson  14:03

Personally, you know, I do things like meditation and getting into nature and having, you know, friends and family available to talk to sometimes I just need a good cry to take care of myself. But, you know, I, I technically started this work working in a local cancer hospital.

Raiya Iverson  14:27

And I really loved it. I loved working with cancer patients and loved working with their families, but I became very fatigued and ended up kind of in a situation with chronic migraines. And it wasn’t until later as I was, as I you know, during the time I had chosen to leave this hospital job that the words compassion fatigue finally came into my my presence and yes, and so I went into a real serious deep dive about compassion fatigue and what that means and how you know how to prevent it or how to take care of it once it’s happened.

Raiya Iverson  15:09

And for me, I, I actually had to remove myself from working in that environment for a while, so that I could get me handled before I could go back to it. And so, you know, just self care is, I mean, it’s just absolutely essential. I teach students to be end of life, doulas, and we spend a very good portion of my class talking about compassion fatigue, and I’m finding that a lot of the students will say, they feel like they have compassion, fatigue, and it’s not even in this service oriented job like, like, for people. So it definitely can happen anytime. And, and yeah, just being aware of the body, you know, talking to us and, and being able to have those self care techniques that we can use, you know…

Dimitrius  16:03

Definitely. And when you mentioned in your students mentioning, they have compassion fatigue outside of the service related jobs, I can see that because every day, we are kind of bombarded with just news and events of just these unprecedented things that happen, these tragedies, these mass shootings and everything else that goes on. And of course, you know, you don’t want to become numb to that. Right? You don’t want to get to a point where it just doesn’t affect you. So I think that is definitely where a lot of that comes from to possibly. Because it you know, you, you want to do something about it sometimes. And sometimes you realize there’s not much you can do if there’s anything.

Raiya Iverson  16:53

Yeah, yeah. And we feel for the people that are experiencing it, you know, through that compassionate space in us. And yeah, absolutely. You know, when it feels like the world is falling apart, and you’re still trying to do your dear life at the same time.

Dimitrius  17:08

Exactly. Exactly. So why I have a question, why is it that…well…why do you believe we struggle so much with the concept of death?

Raiya Iverson  17:21

Oh, goodness, well, might not be a popular idea. But I’m certainly not the first to mention this. But I really believe that, you know, many years ago, like, I don’t know, 50 or 80 years ago, there was sort of this takeover by the medical community regarding things like death and death in the medical world is viewed as the enemy, they are doing everything they can to fight that.

Raiya Iverson  17:53

And, and that I, you know, I believe and I and many people in this field believe that kind of skewed things in the world of death, and people began to fear it, rather than sort of honor that this is a process that we all go through, and it should be honored and revered and celebrated. Even, you know, hospice became a thing because of that. It’s like there there needed to be a compassionate entity for people who were dying. And they, you know, hospice came in and they presented death in a different way.

Raiya Iverson  18:31

And it was a more supportive process. And hospice is its app, they’re amazing. They you know, end of life doula is completely support hospice in their role. But with hospice hospitals can’t always stay at the bedside of a patient. And so that’s where end of life doula has kind of come in to that space, we, we, you know, can hang out for a little bit longer than hospice actually can. So we kind of pick up basically where hospice leaves off the concept of death. It’s, it has it’s been a hard one. And I think that it just really started by, you know, medical, fighting it and and making society fear it. And I don’t think it should be feared.

Dimitrius  19:17

I agree. Of course, we don’t want to think of there being a moment where everything just comes to an end. You know, that’s that’s a lot to take in sometimes because Sure, we get used to, you know, the way things are right now, you see the people that we care about and seeing them every day and we get used, I mean, or we just get used to our routine.

Dimitrius  19:40

We get used to watching TV and our books and never whatever entertainment we get used to all that and the idea that we are not eternal beings and that some time it’s going to be time. That is something that we definitely push as far back into the forest recesses of our mind Just so that we don’t have to think about it, you’re right. And it’s easy to distract ourselves from that to, to the point where we don’t consider what you’ve mentioned, with how we’ve made it the enemy, when it’s just, it’s a part of life, everything is born, everything dies.

Dimitrius  20:17

That’s just how it is. The universe is about balance, you know, you things are created, things are destroyed, but it’s cyclical. So definitely, definitely I understand that. So in your line of work, can you think of a, what was the moment for you, that was like I have to this is me, this is what I’m going to do from now on.

Raiya Iverson  20:40

I mean, I so I have a lot of experience, like I said, kind of working in the cancer world. And so that’s kind of where I was introduced to it. And realized, while working with cancer patients and with those who were in the moment of passing, or just, you know, just before passing or their relatives or passing, I just found that I had had an ability to hold that space to not fear it.

Raiya Iverson  21:11

I didn’t become traumatized by death, as I witnessed it. And I don’t think that I ever thought that I was going to work in depth for my, my career, but as I was, you know, kind of plagued with the chronic migraines and stuff, and I was choosing to leave the hospital system. I went back to school, and I took a birth doula class and and so I had these really crazy dynamics of of birth and death happening for myself at that point in life. And I started asking the question, like, why isn’t death doula work in depth, and so I started researching it.

Raiya Iverson  21:55

And I found some, I found that some people were actually doing it, but I reside in Utah. And these programs were kind of back east or there was one in the UK, there’s one that kind of traveled around, so you had to figure out where they were going to be and go to them. And I just couldn’t quite find the program that would, you know, accommodate my life, such as it was at the time, but also teach me things that I wasn’t already experiencing in the hospital. And really, I couldn’t find it.

Raiya Iverson  22:32

And so I decided I was going to write my own program, and help other people learn it. And so I spent about three years interviewing patients and their family, and doctors and nurses and hospice and lawyers. And I just, I mean, I’m a little bit of a research junkie too. And so that, to me, felt fun, you know, to go through people and research all of this stuff, but it took me three years before I finally felt like I had, you know, between my own experience and everything that everybody else was telling me they felt was important in the death process.

Raiya Iverson  23:11

And I finally sat down and wrote my program in 2017. And I taught my first class in 2018. And honestly, I, I love that, you know, because people who feel called to work in depth, we’re kind of a, we’re a small group of people. And so, you know, when when we come together and and I’m able to teach or, you know, other people have already become end of life, doulas, and they have something to offer.

Raiya Iverson  23:45

You know, we just kind of feel like we found our people, we’ve found our community and it keeps me definitely engaged in this work. I have decided recently, you know, within the last year that I, I am going to go to midwives college, I got accepted to start summer semester. And so I’m going to bring I’m gonna bring birth and death into my world, not just as a doula, but as a midwife. Oh, good. Yeah.

Raiya Iverson  24:14

So I do kind of have a well rounded, you know, idea of regarding you know, the whole process birth to death and everything in between and, and I feel called to bring all of the work together. Some people only want to work in birth, some people only want to work in death. And so it really is kind of a tailor fit to two people.

Dimitrius  24:38

Yeah, I’m sure you have a very unique perspective when you’re getting to see all of that and all of in be in that those environments. I’m sure that gives you just so much perspective, can you think of a particular moment when you started officially, as a death doula that stood out to you that just resonated with you?

Raiya Iverson  25:02

I mean, the moment that’s coming to my mind actually was when I was working in the hospital, I can tell you that story. I think that was the moment that I realized that I, I needed to, you know, I needed to pursue more of working in death. But definitely those those really profound moments did come with cancer, I worked with a woman who, you know, nobody could understand why she was still alive, they had predicted that she would have died weeks before I got to her.

Raiya Iverson  25:37

And I was, I think that a lot of people who work in the hospital system will understand my sentiment here. But when I got this one particular night, I worked graveyards, because things were quiet. And I it gave me a chance to really connect with the patients and their family members more. And that’s really why I was doing it was to connect with people during those hard and vulnerable times. And when you work in the hospital system, sometimes you get floated to other floors and other places.

Raiya Iverson  26:09

And so this one particular night, I was floated down to the BMT unit, and I didn’t particularly like floating, because you’re working with people you don’t know, you know, when you work on a floor, you kind of tend to get the flow of, of the nurses and doctors and CNAs and social workers and people and so you know, that’s your comfort zone. And so when you’re floated out of there, it, you’re out of your comfort zone, which I was, I don’t know, kind of grumbling and, and being a little bit of a brat about it, but I when I, you know, I need to keep my job.

Raiya Iverson  26:48

So I went but I wasn’t, you know, inside very happy about it. But I went down and I was assigned to this woman, like I said they they just couldn’t figure out why she was still alive. And, and that was basically the the report that I got when I walked into, into that unit was we don’t know why she’s still alive. But, you know, here’s what she needs. And, and I had some of the most profound and beautiful conversations with this woman that stuck with me for you know, ever since. And one of those was she she got very emotional.

Raiya Iverson  27:28

This was a woman who hadn’t stood up for months. And, and she, you know, I saw the nurse flagging me down and telling me to come help. And so I ran in there and this woman was standing up by her bedside, which can happen sometimes when when people are dying, sometimes they can get these sudden surges of energy. And she’s standing up at her bedside, and she’s caught in the bedrail. And so we get her laid back down and and she’s kind of silently crying, and nobody who came in to help could really get her to talk.

Raiya Iverson  28:13

And I just kind of decided I was not leaving her bedside, until I felt like she was okay. And so I just sat and held the space for her and I held her hand. And there finally came a point probably 10 minutes into it, where I finally just asked her are these happy tears are these tears of sadness? And she said to me, how can we not weep for the beauty and pain in this life. And I just kind of sat with that with her. And I told her, you know, a few minutes later, I said, You are such a lovely woman. And I’m so grateful that I got to be here with you tonight.

Raiya Iverson  29:02

And she held onto my hand really tight. And she said, she said I prayed all day yesterday, that I wouldn’t be alone tonight. And God sent me you. And I I mean, that completely floored me. You know, whatever somebody’s religious beliefs are. I mean, at that point, it didn’t matter to me. I was just like, wow, you know, I felt this connection with her. I felt the I felt that I was called to be there.

Raiya Iverson  29:35

And of course that made me feel really bad that I was grumbling all the way down there. It kind of taught me that you know, we I think our were sent into people’s lives for very deliberate reasons. Absolutely. And yeah, she she kind of became my teacher that night that I I need to take this a little bit more serious and and I have an ability that a lot of people don’t Have and so I need to, I need to remain open to no matter where I’m called to be. And that’s that lesson is really helped me in in my work. I mean that that experience happened, oh, probably 16 years ago. And and so when I’m holding space for people it it is absolutely from the purest place of love that I can possibly come from because I feel like if I’m there, I’ve been called to be there. So…

Dimitrius  30:31

Oh my goodness. Yeah, that is. That’s astounding. Yeah, that sounds incredible. Yes, absolutely. Now tell me tell me again, once again what she said to you.

Raiya Iverson  30:43

So I asked her. If these were happy tears or tears of sadness? And she said, How can we not weep? For the beauty and the sadness of this life?

Dimitrius  30:53

Oh, my goodness, that’s just, it’s gorgeous. It is. It is. It’s absolutely beautiful.

Raiya Iverson  31:00

And, and it really sat in my heart for ever since.

Dimitrius  31:04

Well, that is awesome. That is really, really, really awesome. That you are able to do that for her and she was able to teach you. Yeah.

Raiya Iverson  31:15

Well, and honestly, I feel like every time I’ve gotten to experience and here’s the thing as a doula a lot of times you’re not there during that actual transition of death. Sometimes you’re working with them beforehand or after hand. And so but there have been so many times in all of those processes where I have I have met incredible teachers that have shown me just a little deeper level of, of what I’m meant to do here. Yeah, it’s, it’s really a beautiful, beautiful work that I feel absolutely honored to be a part of.

Dimitrius  31:52

So regarding people have just an everyday walk of life. Well, that would you say that we all need to consider having been through all of those experiences that we need to keep in mind.

Raiya Iverson  32:07

Forgiveness sets us free. Yeah. Forgiveness, if you if you are, you know, if you’re the one that’s passing, or if it’s a family member, that’s passing forgiveness for whoever needs it, even yourself, you know, sometimes forgiving ourselves before we go into that, it, it’s I just see such beautiful healing happening. When people open up to that forgiveness. And absolutely, it’s a part of love. It’s it’s the most healing element of, of what we can do in those last days.

Dimitrius  32:44

Fantastic. So for anyone who might be interested and becoming an end of life doula, what’s a bit of wisdom that you would impart to these individuals?

Raiya Iverson  32:57

I would say, definitely find a program that fits you. There’s many programs out there to choose from some people come I mean, the angle that I come from when I teach is kind of the the point of view of a midwife. And so there are some, you know, I did come from the hospital system as well.

Raiya Iverson  33:19 And so there are some understandings of the medical aspect of all of this, but then there’s also the holistic so I kind of tried to keep it well rounded. There’s programs out there that are very much based in shamanic healing practices, you know, you just kind of have to find what resonates with you and what is going to sustain your practice. So so there’s that and also just approaching this work from love, you know, loving what you do, loving who you are, sir, because we heal through love, even in death. And if we, if we approach this work with that love, it’s felt it’s felt by the, by the dying and and by their loved ones. So…