Eating disorders can be a major physical and mental struggle. They can cause serious consequences and drastic changes in one’s weight and appearance.

So, what are the main causes of disordered eating? Is it always about food, or is there something more? Do we have enough information and resources to understand eating disorders?

I am joined by therapist Erika Holmes to break down what disordered eating is. We’ll also discuss its causes and how we can better understand our relationship with food.

Erika Holmes  00:57

I mean, I think that the biggest thing that kind of gets in the way, like kind of along with the shame, like part of shame is is expectations and perfection, I think is some aspect of it. And I think that individually and culturally, we have a lot of X expectations and a lot of feelings of perfection around eating disorder and eating disorder behaviors.

Dimitrius  01:21

Our culture encourages us to have a complicated relationship with food. It’s like we’re encouraged to overindulge, and eat out all the time, while simultaneously shaming us if we’re a certain body type or overweight. And when you’re constantly presented with these conflicting feelings, things can understandably get confusing. And those feelings of shame can lead to disordered eating, which comes in many forms.

Dimitrius  01:47

I absolutely believe we as a society could stand to make healthier eating choices with regards to what we consume. But it’s a lot more complex than we make it out to be. And I’m going to repeatedly emphasize in this episode, that shame has no place in making healthier eating decisions.

Dimitrius  02:06

I do not condone shaming or guilt tripping people into losing weight or eating healthier. So on today’s episode, we’re going to focus on talking about disordered eating, how it originates and break down some aspects of it that we don’t normally take into consideration. So let’s get started.

Dimitrius  02:24

Welcome to the Dimitrius show, where I learned how to walk through my shadows, picking the flowers I’ve grown through sheer resilience. And I may not know enough yet to start teaching, but I’m going to keep convincing you to keep pushing. I’m Dimitrius. And this is my life after speaking.

Dimitrius  02:54

There are many different types of eating disorders. I won’t go through each and every one. However, when you really start to take a deep look into why people have an unhealthy relationship with food. It has less to do with the food itself and more to do with underlying causes and triggers. For instance, I came to grips recently with the fact that I overeat regularly. And it’s been a thing ever since I was a teenager.

Dimitrius  03:18

In fact, it was encouraged. Some of you are probably familiar with the sentiment about growing boys and their needs to eat more. You may come from families where you are always encouraged to eat as much as you wanted. And especially as a black individual. A lot of our culture places food as a source of comfort symbolizes love and togetherness. It originates from a time when we had to make do with what little we had access to thanks to racism.

Dimitrius  03:47

So we also view it as a source of safety and stability. That was definitely the case for me as a gay teen. Because I rarely ever felt safe and secure. Food was one of the few things I could use as an instant dopamine release, and it instantly became a regular way to improve my mood. In fact, whenever I would try to diet and exercise I would become more anxious and depressed.

Dimitrius  04:11

Because I subconsciously felt like one of my primary sources of safety and happiness were being taken away. It took a considerable amount of time for me to address the root cause of my eating habits. And it all came down to low self esteem and a negative self image which I’ve talked about previously. Now I have been able to successfully employ healthier eating habits without forgoing everything that I like to eat and moderation has been working for me.

Dimitrius  04:38

I don’t focus so much on restricting things as I do by emphasizing healthy options First and foremost, and allowing myself Grace if I have a day where I have the audacity to want Whataburger that day. That’s why I wanted to have this much needed discussion and why I invited Eric Holmes to speak with me today. Erica is a therapist to his brand Seeking out to help individuals address the relationship with food and their body. So naturally, she’s an excellent person to speak to about today’s topic. So let’s bring her on.

Erika Holmes  05:10

My name’s Erica Holmes. I am a marriage and family therapist licensed in Colorado where I live, I’m branching out to help more people besides just doing one on one therapy by doing coaching.

Erika Holmes  05:21

So I’m doing coaching program for individuals to help them heal their relationship with food and body like getting beneath the just the symptoms and healing the relationship with themselves to make it possible to have better relationship with others. So not just food, but with themselves and others to have more of a lasting recovery than just band aids and quick fixes and rules and things like that.

Dimitrius  05:45

So do you have any personal experience with having a sort of negative relationship with food?

Erika Holmes  05:51

Sure, do the Yeah. Since I was a kid, I use food, I don’t know to help comfort and Sue then and over ate and snuck food as a kid. And also during that time started dieting kind of off and on, I would see what my mom was doing. Or I remember one time hearing a story about like what Vanna White a and trying to go for that.

Erika Holmes  06:14

So it’s always been a little bit funky. And then in college, it turned into like a full eating disorder at anorexia. And then I started a recovery journey from there. So that was in college, and I’m 41 now. So it’s been a minute of this whole ride, but it keeps evolving. And actually at this point, I’m like, super grateful for it.

Erika Holmes  06:39

I think it’s there’s been like so many cool things that have come from me reconciling not just my relationship with food and my body, but also like my identity, my emotions, myself, figuring out how to relate better with other people. It’s been really cool. And then from doing my own work, I went to school and got my master’s in psychology. And since my internship, I’ve been working with people with eating disorders at every level of care from hospitalization to date programs and to private practice. So a lot of experience.

Dimitrius  07:17

Yes, yes, definitely sounds like it, you’ve got a lot going for yourself there. So that’s, that’s awesome. Very good. So how do you define disordered eating?

Erika Holmes  07:27

I mean, that’s the complicated part. And it runs the gamut of people who have just a disordered, disordered eating, or they just have a funky relationship with food, or maybe they’ve got some they’re picky, or whatever, it might be all the way to have eating disorders that can be deadly.

Erika Holmes  07:45

I think in a nutshell, I would say, it tends to be when food and weight and behaviors related to that get in the way of being healthy. Get in the way of your mental and emotional well being and get in the way of having healthy, strong, connected relationships with others. I think also, it’s like literally eating disorders.

Erika Holmes  08:10

There’s some like literally, disordered, like food is more important or takes more focus than family or friends or work or health, or it can be like food rules, or the behaviors around food, like what you eat, when you eat, how you eat it are more important than actual hunger or fullness or nutrition needs.

Dimitrius  08:31

Right. Okay, that makes sense. And going back to the taking precedence over your emotional and mental health needs, especially there because, you know, a lot of us like, I think you mentioned earlier use food to cope. I know I do. And that does get to a point it did for me, where you realize that you’re just every time you get stressed or every time you have a bad day. The first go to is just to get something really gross, but tastes good.

Dimitrius  09:02

And just eat away. And you find yourself just binging constantly. And that was something I had to really stop myself one day, when I was sitting in front of like, a gigantic thing of Pizza Hut and go, Okay, this why though, you’ve already gotten lots today. Why do we need to do this?

Dimitrius  09:24

You know, and that was and I’m comfortable sharing that, you know, some people are they’re ashamed or like, I don’t want to tell people I was eating too much in one day. I you know, I saw that. I saw that. Oh my gosh, like why do you have a whole pizza right now? Yeah, you don’t need this. You know, you really you truly do not and you figure it out. Oh, yeah, I did. Absolutely.

Dimitrius  09:44

That was when I looked and I said you know what, you’re doing this because you’re stressed you are you associate eating with for me it was I associated the eating with safety. Yep. Right. So it If I, I would not really go into like a healthy eating pattern or plan all the way because I was afraid of I just hard to explain but just the safety component.

Dimitrius  10:15

And I think it has to do with when I first moved out on my own, and from college can barely afford to make myself a peanut butter and jelly sandwich. In fact, there was a time where I made all I have was peanut butter, and I think a slice of bread until payday. And I put the peanut butter on the piece of bread. And I remember I folded in half. And that was my meal for the whole day.

Dimitrius  10:41

And that was I think that was just really traumatic at the time for me. And so I never wanted to ever go through that again. And so or even remotely close to it. So I really, really overcorrected. And later in life, where I’m like buying all this food, filling up my refrigerator with stuff that really could probably last me a couple of months if I put it in the freezer, so that when I finally saw that, and I’ve because I had started also looking into like, what do you need every day for new nutritional value and to help you maintain a healthy weight, things like that.

Dimitrius  11:14

And I remember I had been counting everything and tracking and things like that. And that was when but I also not like making myself deprive myself of being really restrictive, because I didn’t want to go down that route either. Right? So it really did reach a point where I did see in that moment where I was like, No, you’ve had everything you need to meet your nutritional value goals.

Dimitrius  11:35

Today, you don’t this, you think you need this, because it’s going to keep you safe. And you’re not going to feel like you’re going to starve to death tomorrow, but you’ve already gotten what you need. So it’s okay. So really peeling back that layer, layer upon layer, right? And going, oh my gosh, you know, you can be disciplined, and still be able to function, you’re not going to, if you don’t, if I don’t over eat, I’m not going to be able to function at work.

Dimitrius  12:04

Caffeine was another thing I was trying to limit myself on. If I don’t have a gigantic Starbucks drink every morning, I’m not I’m going to fall into my desk, like you know those things, taking that away and just going look, look what you were able to do what you just did, when you looked after yourself, instead of just trying to place it yourself, look at what you were able to accomplish.

Dimitrius  12:27

And by doing that, I mean it really ever since then, it’s been where, you know, I cook, I do plan things I do make sure when I go out to restaurants that, you know, probably really annoying with people I’m with because I’m like, nope, Tina, I can’t have that I’m sorry.

Dimitrius  12:42

But it’s been working. It’s been working to where, you know, I’m starting to come down from from a weight perspective, which is important, of course, but also from an overall well being. Because I realized that I don’t need that in order to be happy to have that extra gigantic thing of pizza that I really don’t need. I don’t need that. And I don’t want to continue to use that as a crutch. I want to be able to have the tools that I need that are actually going to help me.

Erika Holmes  13:10

Yeah, and the more that you’re doing that, like it’s kind of like a band aid. Maybe you get distracted, maybe you do in the moment feel for you like a little bit of safety, but like it gets in the way of the things that are actually more satiating and nurturing and long lasting like finding some safety and connection within yourself and finding some safety and connection with your friends or family or community.

Erika Holmes  13:35

Like it can get in the way. And then it’s that thing where it’s more and more and more, you’re more isolated, you end up getting more dependent on it, because it’s a big leap of faith to start to use those other things, other resources, other other tools, but those things have a better like long term outcome and more like meaningful safety when you’re connected with yourself of like, what do I truly need are connected with others who can help you get what you truly need. Yeah,

Dimitrius  14:02

I think also a big component of it is I was okay with really stepping back. And I quickly identifying and being honest with myself, about why I needed that. And a lot of people I know that barrier to that is the shame aspect where the shame prevents them from even mentally it’s like a mental block.

Dimitrius  14:25

They just don’t even want to even get close to addressing that. And that’s largely to me a product of our culture where we really do shame people who overindulge and food and make them feel as though they’re just horrible and monstrous. So for me, it was really important to not have that shame, but to kind of peel yourself back and look at where you are.

Dimitrius  14:48

Just be having an honest view of where you are, you know, and that was for me, it was going yeah, you have had enough to eat today, bro. And you’re now trying to eat this jug addicting if pizza, and it’s not good for you, but at the same time, there’s a reason for it.

Dimitrius  15:06

And it goes back to a number of things to where it’s not coming from, you’re just being a bad person, it’s you’re trying to protect yourself in some way, or you’re trying to cope with something. And you’re not going to get to that stage, if you just fall into the shame aspect. So, yep, it’s there is that something that you are able to help your clients with is overcoming that shame?

Erika Holmes  15:32

Absolutely. I feel like every point that shame is kind of a part of it. Like you’re saying, oftentimes, shame can be a barrier for people just walking in the door to get some help. But then, once they’re in the door shames, usually like a key player in people using food to manage stuff.

Erika Holmes  15:51

Sometimes it’s shame, that’s a result from trauma and that eating disorder has been helpful to manage trauma symptoms, sometimes it’s shame around, like, what their body looks like, or what their identity is, and then kind of like you, you can be turning towards food to manage those things, as opposed to like really doing some of that some of that work, or it can shame for just having needs in general.

Erika Holmes  16:16

And like foods, a nice thing of like, you don’t most of the time, you don’t have to ask them one, like no one can tell you what to eat or forced you to eat or, or forced you to stop. Like often it’s a way to like manage needs help emotions, that doesn’t necessarily require you to like, pay too much attention to what’s going on and name it and soothe yourself or to like, name it and ask for other people for help, like so it can be like shame can really kind of be driving again, like a part of what can be driving an eating disorder.

Erika Holmes  16:52

And a lot of it is so secretive too. I mean, shame. It’s one of those self perpetuating things where like, our shame lives and grows and in the darkness, and then the secrets. And most eating disorder behavior is done in secret, like people who are starving themselves probably are going to lie about how much they’re eating or not eating, people who are binging are probably going to lie about how much they’re eating or not eating.

Erika Holmes  17:16

Like someone running to the bathroom, someone with bulimia is probably not going to say like, Hey, this is what I’m doing, guys. It’s all like shame kind of is part of what starts it and then like that shame around the eating disorder behaviors themselves are also is also part of what can continue it.

Dimitrius  17:35

Exactly. So what do you feel are some aspects of disordered eating that we tend to overlook?

Erika Holmes  17:41

I mean, I think that the biggest thing that kind of gets in the way, like kind of along with the shame, like part of shame is, is expectations and perfection, I think is some aspect of it. And I think that individually and culturally, we have a lot of X expectations and a lot of feelings of perfection, around eating disorder and eating disorder behaviors.

Erika Holmes  18:05

And people’s tend to kind of focus on what people what they expect people to look like who have eating disorders. And I think that gets in the way of I don’t know, like if you’re people who have large bodies starve themselves and people who are in very small bodies binge so like, you can’t have that expectation or stigma or what something’s supposed to look like the what is the determining factor of like, Hey, are you okay?

18:33

Or the person looking in the mirror and being like, Hey, am I okay? Or is it time enough to get help? Like, there’s always people who have it worse. The person who has like the perfect or the best eating disorder is dead. Like, they’re, it’s a deadly kind of thing. But it definitely like that kind of thing can get in the way, or we make excuses for people of like, oh, well, they’re eating so it must not be a big deal, or they’re not that skinny, or they’re the they’ve put on a couple pounds, but whatever. Like we can make excuses for other people.

19:04

And we make excuses for ourselves saying that gets in the way. And I think there’s a lot of stuff that is, like gets in the way that we like, the parts that we overlook is how much an eating disorder is very like at its heart, not really about food, weight or size, I think at the at the heart and what we really need to be talking more about and focusing more on besides like, what someone looks like or is that the eating disorder is usually about control or shame or identity, trauma, belonging, regulating emotions, like on and on and on and on, like food and body just happens to be for that person, like the chosen battleground for those things.

19:50

And usually why they’ve chosen that it’s not even all about weight. Sometimes Sometimes it’s it’s easy to think that it’s about food or size or even like in internalized misogyny or patriarchy. But sometimes people just stumble on the behaviors and find that they work. And then it kind of like self perpetuates and turns into a thing. So I think the more that it’s just focused on like size and food, and like, Oh, if you just get on the right diet, you’ll be fine.

20:17

If you can just shed some pounds, or if you just like, add a few pounds, like, you’ll be fine. Or if you just stop purging, you’ll be fine. Like, I think that that’s completely misguided, and then makes a lot of people feel even more shame of like, well, I did the thing. And still I feel like garbage.

Dimitrius  20:34

Right? Absolutely, I can see that. I can see that. So you talked about your personal journey of overcoming disordered eating? What are what is your biggest success story?

Erika Holmes  20:45

I think that the biggest success story, I think my biggest, biggest success is kind of mirrored, and the biggest success that I’ve seen another person do, and I’m kinda like, I’m a little hesitant and calling it the biggest success because everyone’s journey is gonna look different.

21:02

And it’s not like, Oh, if you do this, then you’ve made it. And if you haven’t done this, then like, you’re less than, in some way. But I think my my biggest success, I think, is being able to tackle all of these kinds of things that were part of what got me to have an eating disorder in the first place, and then turn around and like have the, I don’t know the space and desire to help others.

21:32

And I think some of my biggest success stories are the ones that I’m most proud or most inspired by with other people, as is how they kind of shrink the eating disorder, and then fill that space up with love and with their own passions, and with helping other people with their own kind of like social justice stuff that they that they want to put some of this energy into.

21:58

So I think that that’s one of the coolest thing is, is taking some of the I don’t know, like the qualities and traits that anyone who develops an eating disorder is going to have, and that the eating disorder kind of takes hold of and makes use of abuses, like taking some of those character traits, like being smart, like being creative, like being tenacious and stubborn, like being compassionate and, and turn all of those around and use that, like use their powers for good.

22:31

And I think that that’s so cool. When I get to kind of be along that journey and see other people get to do that, like kind of, I don’t know, take up, take up more space, and really put themselves out there and not be in the shame of an eating disorder not have a small life, whether regardless of size of your body, like an eating disorder creates a very small life and being able to have like a big, bold, juicy, exciting life, whatever that looks like for the person. I think that’s, that’s awesome.

Dimitrius  23:02

I agree with all of that. And I love that you mentioned this shrinking of the eating disorder and emphasizing the more positive aspects that you can kind of tap into. I know for me personally, going back to what I said about safety, it was kind of going and saying, Okay, well, when you don’t feel when you are stressed, anxious, whatever the case, depress, and you do not feel safe.

Dimitrius  23:28

What can you do outside of food to feel safe? What would make you feel more safe? In those moments, of course, I want to also do the overall big picture work to kind of identify that as well. But in those little bitty moments where you’re just, you know, finding yourself reaching like, I’m okay, I gotta go to the vending machine, because I am stressed out at work stressed at my desk, I need something that you on in those moments going okay, well, why, therefore, for me, and so, absolutely.

Dimitrius  24:02

Once you once I began to emphasize the more positive alternatives to what I had been doing, and going for those options first, even if I did that day, still eat something, I had no business still it was being able to do that and go, Okay, you know what, when you did do that, it felt better, instead of just eating something, and maybe we can just just do that next time, and you’ll be okay.

Dimitrius  24:31

So I really I appreciate that sentiment, because, you know, I want people to know that there will be days where, at first when you’re trying to shift into those more positive alternatives that you’re not going to be perfect at it. You’re not going to always knocking out the park.

Dimitrius  24:50

And I don’t want people to feel like the expectation should be kind of like was dieting where you just have to completely start eradicating things from In your routine and choices, and if you can’t do that, then okay, you failed, and maybe better luck next time. It’s like no, it, let’s look at it where it’s more of a gradual thing. And you want to continuously grow out that positive heart. And like you mentioned, once again, shrinking that, that disordered eating aspect of it.

25:24

Yeah. Because like so much of like, what is an eating disorder is a lot of shame and self hatred, and you can’t recover by adding more shame and self hatred by having more rigid rules, and beating yourself up and having it be black and white.

25:44

Like it needs to be like you’re saying that thing of like, okay, well, can I maybe this wasn’t my best choice. But can I like be curious about why I did it and what it was doing for me, and can I maybe think of what I want to do for next time, but also acknowledge, like, there was probably a reason why I did whatever I did today that I’m not pleased about, like, I was probably needing something I was probably hurting, I was probably having a hard time. So like, that all needs a lot more compassion, rather than just being punitive.

26:19

Or shaming or, or just being so rigid and black and white. Like I really like the thing of not, I don’t know, you don’t fight hate with hate kind of thing. Like you need to add so much love to it, and be so compassionate and compassion. I think there’s, there’s a, a woman, Kristen Neff, who I really liked, who talks about compassion. And she she talks about two different kinds of like gentle and fierce.

26:49

And I think with eating disorder, recovery that needs to be both and gentle is really accepting and loving and validating of like, Hey, I get that you had a hard time. But fierce compassion also needs to be a part of it of like setting some boundaries and expecting that you can do you better and change and that not everything’s great.

27:09

And that like there, there’s there are some some boundaries on stuff. So you don’t just want to say like, Oh, you did this and like, it’s fine. Like spiritual bypassing just like, whatever, it’s fine. Like, no, like, it’s, it’s you can do better. And this, this isn’t in line with your goals, or this isn’t in line with your values.

27:28

And this is something that you’re wanting to work on. And there’s a reason why you’re wanting to work on it. So like, let’s think of how to do it better. But also, like, don’t be so hard on yourself, that it’s like no one, no one gets better by being shamed, maybe for a moment, but then it’s just like, then you just go, the more shame and more hiding. And the worst is when you start hiding and lying to yourself. Yes.

27:51

And so you want to be building that relationship with yourself and not create a situation where like, when you look at yourself in the mirror, you’re so mean to yourself that you just need to start hiding from yourself. Like that’s, that’s the place we want to avoid.

Dimitrius  28:05

Precisely precisely, I like that you mentioned the honesty aspect. I know when I started tracking my meals, and trying to keep up with my nutritional goals, that it’s really easy in the beginning to not want to track certain things. Because you know, you did something wrong that day, and you don’t want the app to be like, Oh, that or you know, whatever it is it used to be like, oh, yeah, you kind of went over your sugar goal there.

Dimitrius  28:30

And so it’s really important to be able, like we mentioned both before, to be comfortable with the overall outlook. And to not be afraid of that not be afraid of being able to see who you are at that moment. And so yeah, I have my days where I will clock that I probably had way too many mimosas today. And, you know, my little limit is done for that day. And you know, we’re just going to do the best that we can for the remainder.

Dimitrius  29:03

So, so yeah, absolutely. And like you mentioned with the shame, it doesn’t, it doesn’t help in an improvement and the long term. And I think about the fat shaming aspect, especially because it we, whenever I see people who are questioning, you know, like fat acceptance and things like that, and all that movement.

Dimitrius  29:26

And it’s always emphasized towards, we don’t need to be accepting, you know this and promoting obesity and I’m thinking for myself, I don’t think I’m like, that’s not really what that is, though. It’s accepting who you are in that moment. And so that when you are able to do that, then you can make healthier choices.

Dimitrius  29:49

You can decide to focus on the things that make you feel better, it’s easier once you’re able to accept yourself for where you are in that Moment. And I don’t think that there is going to be this huge negative impact on society if we stop, you know, being so rude and hateful to people who are overweight.

Dimitrius  30:12

And so I that’s what I think of too, when it comes to the honesty aspect of it is we really I mean, you need, like I’ve said before, you really need to look at the entire overall picture, and not be afraid of it and not feel like you can’t let it be seen and hide it and everything like that. So definitely,

30:33

Yeah, there is a thing of like, the there always has to be kind of acceptance in order to have change, like, if you’re not accepting something as it is, and looking at it as it is. And with as minimal slash no amount of shame as possible.

30:48

Just here’s what it is, like, if you’re not accepting what is there’s no way you’re going to change it, and very least no way that you’re going to change it effectively. So the more that you can be looking at, like, yeah, I I do this thing, or I have these thoughts, or I have these feelings, and like when I have these feelings, here’s what I tend to do.

31:07

Okay, and then we can start changing it. But if it’s hiding in line and trying to make it look good, or trying to, like minimize it for ourselves or others, like there’s no way to truly change that stuff.

Dimitrius  31:22

So do you feel with the work that you do? Do you feel that there are enough resources available for disordered eating? Or do you feel that there’s still more work that we can do?

31:32

I mean, I think there’s always gonna be more that we can do and more that we’re gonna be finding out. And I think there’s probably going to be more and more that we’re finding out in terms of like, what’s actually driving all of these kind of behaviors, especially there’s more work on how trauma is impacting it, or how it looks different for people with like neuro divergent folks like what’s going on there with eating disorders, because it looks a little bit different.

32:03

I think the more I think there is more discussion around it in in the media and like with celebrities, which I think is nice, but it probably could stand to be a little more nuanced, and also, just culture and it sucks to have someone at one point, say like, yeah, I struggle with food or eating disorder.

32:24

And like, the very next day, they’re on the red carpet being told how like, they’ve got the best body ever, or on the flip side, like someone like Lizzo being like, I love myself and she’s doing like such cool music and all this kind of stuff. And then everything is talking about how unhealthy it is and how terrible it is and what a bad example and so, like it’s still kind of talking out of both sides of of its mouth like culture is so I think that that gets really confusing. And so it I think there needs to be continued all the time.

33:01

There needs to be continued discussion about it some like normalizing of like those shades of gray also, I think would be helpful so that it’s not just like, well, either you’re like fine, or you’re on death’s door and that’s the only thing that we that we are going to talk about or like that that’s kind of the template for what it looks like for someone who needs help with an eating disorder.

33:26

Like I think there needs to be more nuanced in terms of that there are a lot of good resources I mean on social media I’m I’m not personally on tick tock but I know I can’t go a day without someone telling me what what interesting thing they’ve seen on tick tock when my clients but that I think you got to be a little bit careful of what you don’t want to just take whatever influencer is on there or whatever coach that’s maybe had like a two hour certification like our bro science kind of dude on there.

33:59

Like that’s not necessarily who you want to be following. So you’ve got to be very, I don’t know, discerning, I guess with what information you take. I always think that people should talk to doctors when they’re doing anything in like, because this does have such a medical component to it.

34:17

But I think if someone were wanting to find good solid information, or at least a good place to start there’s a couple websites I’d suggest there is a National Eating Disorder Association, NIDA and EDA, their online one called iadapt the International Association of eating disorder professionals i A EDP or oh a NAD is another one that is the anorexia and National Association of anorexia and related disorders, which don’t let that fool you.

34:51

They say anorexia but it’s for all eating disorders on there. So any of those I think are trusted good resources if someone main wanted more information or to get resources or to find help, that’s usually a good, good place to start.